RE: Mansell Supports Offenders
Wednesday 22nd May 2002
Mansell Supports Offenders
Nigel Mansell lends his support to young offenders
Discussion
Scroat to boss mechanic: Now I've done my GNVQ Level 1, I want to specialise. I was thinking about concentrating on door locking mechanisms and alarm systems. Could you please send me on a course to learn about how they work and what their weaknesses are. Don't worry about the cost, the taxpayer will cover that.
Normally I wouldn't make a comment on articles such as this, me being a shy retiring sort of chap and all, but I am compelled to raise the good points of schemes like this.
Although this article is referring to a course on mechanics inside a prison my comments and thoughts are aimed at courses that involve mechanics, rebuilding a scrap car with the aim to actually driving the vehicle in a race - like banger racing.
This prison one I am not to sure about, it may give offenders a start in life once they come out but everyone knows that prison do not work and I think its something like 70% re-offend.
Outside schemes are the way forward IMO. Particularly with car related crimes, like joyriding or TDA, TWOCing etc. If more money was invested in these courses then I am 99% sure that the re-offending rate would drop. These kids generally only nick cars because of a few reasons:
1) Boredom combined with peer pressure
2) Lack of a firm family upbringing and support
3) No money, combined with jealousy
Although the above is by no means a definitive list they are the main reasons for their crime. Also they are finely linked together and one is effected by the other.
If a 19 year old comes out of a six month stretch they inevitably walk straight into the life they left behind, and combined with new found friends and experience (after all if you are only doing 12 months or less inside you are a bit of a wussy and you have to be like your mates) its only a matter of time before they re-offend.
These courses allow them to have an aim in life, and to do something that not many people who's cars they nick have the chance or desire to do. This alone is enough to make them feel like they have achieved something.
We all like encouragement don't we, so is it so hard to grasp why courses like these would benefit not only the offenders but also us?
It cost a hell of a lot more to stick a kid in jail for six months than to run a course such as this for six months that involves at least 10 kids. If they have a 10% success rate that's one kid less that will not reoffend. (OK these figures are a rough guestimate but you get the idea)
Just remember that most of these guys/girls have had a tough life, and by that I mean physiologically rather than physically. After all, these kids will grow up into adults so shouldn't we give them a chance to give life a go?
I am a regular on this site, and yes I was once a car thief, and yes I spent six months in jail. No it didn't work and if schemes like this were around I know for sure that I would of stopped.
It was in 1989 that I was last in trouble and now I have a clean licence and am dong very well thanks very much. All I ask is that you give these kids a chance before you right them off.
PETROLTED, I know you can find out who I am but mums the word ok!
One last thing, no I haven't had my car nicked ever (touch wood). That's because I know what to do to make it hard and to make my car more of a risk to a thief. If I had my car nicked I would be very angry and if I caught him I would smack him in the head, then prosecute the little scrote. They have to learn somehow.
Prison does not work and I still don't understand why the courts do not put new offenders in jail for a couple of weeks and say "Right, if you keep it up that's where you will end up pal" Human nature adapts to the surroundings, and after a month you get into the swing, if after a month you are still freaked out....well why do you think we have so many comitting suicide in prison?
Although this article is referring to a course on mechanics inside a prison my comments and thoughts are aimed at courses that involve mechanics, rebuilding a scrap car with the aim to actually driving the vehicle in a race - like banger racing.
This prison one I am not to sure about, it may give offenders a start in life once they come out but everyone knows that prison do not work and I think its something like 70% re-offend.
Outside schemes are the way forward IMO. Particularly with car related crimes, like joyriding or TDA, TWOCing etc. If more money was invested in these courses then I am 99% sure that the re-offending rate would drop. These kids generally only nick cars because of a few reasons:
1) Boredom combined with peer pressure
2) Lack of a firm family upbringing and support
3) No money, combined with jealousy
Although the above is by no means a definitive list they are the main reasons for their crime. Also they are finely linked together and one is effected by the other.
If a 19 year old comes out of a six month stretch they inevitably walk straight into the life they left behind, and combined with new found friends and experience (after all if you are only doing 12 months or less inside you are a bit of a wussy and you have to be like your mates) its only a matter of time before they re-offend.
These courses allow them to have an aim in life, and to do something that not many people who's cars they nick have the chance or desire to do. This alone is enough to make them feel like they have achieved something.
We all like encouragement don't we, so is it so hard to grasp why courses like these would benefit not only the offenders but also us?
It cost a hell of a lot more to stick a kid in jail for six months than to run a course such as this for six months that involves at least 10 kids. If they have a 10% success rate that's one kid less that will not reoffend. (OK these figures are a rough guestimate but you get the idea)
Just remember that most of these guys/girls have had a tough life, and by that I mean physiologically rather than physically. After all, these kids will grow up into adults so shouldn't we give them a chance to give life a go?
I am a regular on this site, and yes I was once a car thief, and yes I spent six months in jail. No it didn't work and if schemes like this were around I know for sure that I would of stopped.
It was in 1989 that I was last in trouble and now I have a clean licence and am dong very well thanks very much. All I ask is that you give these kids a chance before you right them off.
PETROLTED, I know you can find out who I am but mums the word ok!
One last thing, no I haven't had my car nicked ever (touch wood). That's because I know what to do to make it hard and to make my car more of a risk to a thief. If I had my car nicked I would be very angry and if I caught him I would smack him in the head, then prosecute the little scrote. They have to learn somehow.
Prison does not work and I still don't understand why the courts do not put new offenders in jail for a couple of weeks and say "Right, if you keep it up that's where you will end up pal" Human nature adapts to the surroundings, and after a month you get into the swing, if after a month you are still freaked out....well why do you think we have so many comitting suicide in prison?
quote:
That's because I know what to do to make it hard and to make my car more of a risk to a thief.
I would be grateful if you could share these tips with the rest of us cos I think it's something that worries everyone on this site?
re: everything else. I know - you're right...was being a little flippant. Sad to say that a side of me sees this country on something of a self destructive spiral - partly due to the 'no consequence' nature of moral society. We seem to believe (because we're civilised) that it is wrong to allow people to suffer in any way - whoever's 'fault' it is they are there. I just find it rather distasteful that this has come to point where practically nobody has to have any sort of liability for their action...mainly because some liberal, bleeding-heart, bored, rich wazzock cries out with the "it isn't their fault...it's x,y or z to blame". So we pour millions of pounds into 'looking after' (I include prison in this) the members of society who want to claim they're hard done by. tough luck. Since when wasn't life a struggle?
Unfortunately I know the points Im making are just not relevant in a 'modern' society, and I guess I'd rather they didn't re-offend than did..... just a shame that because I work I cant find time amongst my other hobbies to build a little banger or kit car....
I, for one, am not sure that schemes like these do not encourage the scrotes to commit the offences in the first place. Rewarding good behaviour is good, but, rewarding bad behaviour is a recipe for disaster. I would prefer to see a scheme where any body in the correct age range (say 15-18) can join up for free, but, only if they have never committed a crime. Teenage criminals (and that is what they are) and their parents should be held responsible for the teenagers actions.
The moral standard of society is dropping fast, and IMHO, is now at a level it is becoming more and more difficult to recover from. A short sharp lesson at an early age never did anyone any harm, and enforces the rights and wrongs of morality.
You can blame whoever you like, but in my view it always comes back to lack of parental control.
One 'cure' for this is actually to have National Service (properly run). This teaches self confidence, self discipline and to respond proerly to authority.
Rant over - back to work!
The moral standard of society is dropping fast, and IMHO, is now at a level it is becoming more and more difficult to recover from. A short sharp lesson at an early age never did anyone any harm, and enforces the rights and wrongs of morality.
You can blame whoever you like, but in my view it always comes back to lack of parental control.
One 'cure' for this is actually to have National Service (properly run). This teaches self confidence, self discipline and to respond proerly to authority.
Rant over - back to work!
quote:
Prison does not work and I still don't understand why the courts do not put new offenders in jail for a couple of weeks and say "Right, if you keep it up that's where you will end up pal" Human nature adapts to the surroundings, and after a month you get into the swing, if after a month you are still freaked out....well why do you think we have so many comitting suicide in prison?
I for one think this idea could be a goer.
If they're only in for a week, you could keep them in solitary, thus negating the "school of petty crime" problem.
Well done "lpg" for speaking up with an honest, heart-felt opinion (despite a cr@p UserID).
how quickly people forget. Prone to winge yes, but boring never.quote:
You can blame whoever you like, but in my view it always comes back to lack of parental control.
I agree with that opinion.
Self-confidence, distinctive conscience, ethical values and social competence are affected by parents first. Well equipped with these virtues one can handle modern society.
Society puts it to a test: literacy differences, steep incline between poor and rich, ...
Virtues mediated by society can have different effects: either they become a role model or they they make envious.
Astable characters cannot cope with that. Either they get flunk or they do flunk others!
People in a comfortable social position (however they reached it) can participate making social life fair, especially as they are in a stronger position; they guide people's views.
Anybody. regardless of social position, should give any other, again regardless of position, respect!
quote:
The moral standard of society is dropping fast, and IMHO, is now at a level it is becoming more and more difficult to recover from. A short sharp lesson at an early age never did anyone any harm, and enforces the rights and wrongs of morality.
You can blame whoever you like, but in my view it always comes back to lack of parental control.
One 'cure' for this is actually to have National Service (properly run). This teaches self confidence, self discipline and to respond proerly to authority.
Rant over - back to work!
This is probably the biggest croc of shite I have ever heard on this site. Taking it a paragraph at a time. Morality, mmmm morality is basically trying to get someone to behave in way that suits you. Well why the hell should they? Possibly because they should have respect for others in society. Unfortunately, in our society today we are run by a bunch of thieving skulking loafers like Blair et al, the judiciary and not forgetting the thieving royals who don't pay their inheritance tax. We can therefore not expect young people to do anything but follow the example they have been given. Fish go rotten from the head.
Parental control. I have personal experience of parents who send their children out to steal from cars and homes. They do it because to them it is not a problem in their world, as they have a set of values that do not correspond to ours, but correspond very well with the values of our leaders.
National service. Oh FFS this is a belter. National service had to be stopped because most male members of society gained a first hand insight into what a bunch of tossers run this country, by meeting with public school educated officers who were by and large as thick as a pile of lavatory seats. This is why most educated people of my fathers age regard the class system and the authority they assume with indifference. It is also why the national serviceman when grouped together with other equally intelligent people made fools of those in command.
My grandfather (a WW2 veteran) once described the British army right of the line officer as the lowest form of human life he had ever come accross. He was not a man given to criticism normally and the remark was serious and unusual enough for me to take note.
Having spent some time working for the military I saw both good and bad for myself. I am however certain that the green side of life would do nothing but confirm to the young that tradition, discipline, morality and respect have no place in their life and that the people who impose it are equally as flawed as those who influenced them to step outside the rules in the first place. Whatever the answers may look like accountability has to start at the top. A response to authority will always be poor if the authority has no credibility, no integrity and seeks to exploit those who put their trust in them.
quote:
quote:
Prison does not work and I still don't understand why the courts do not put new offenders in jail for a couple of weeks and say "Right, if you keep it up that's where you will end up pal" Human nature adapts to the surroundings, and after a month you get into the swing, if after a month you are still freaked out....well why do you think we have so many comitting suicide in prison?
I for one think this idea could be a goer.
Seconded - sounds like a good idea to me.
FFS is that the time?
quote:
One 'cure' for this is actually to have National Service (properly run). This teaches self confidence, self discipline and to respond proerly to authority.
The forces do teach self discipline and self confidence – my cousin was in the RAF for twelve years – you should have seen the useless scrote who signed up and the fully trained, travelled-the-world fighter plane technician who left over a decade later.
'Respond properly to authority'. Well, 'authority' in the case of many walks of life, MP's, Church leaders etc has been rumbled big time and the young come to the table today with the knowledge that they think they are as good as anybody. What they lack is experience – but they don't realise that.
Reminds me of what I thought of me dad – at 18 I thought how little he knew. At 30 I thought how much he had learned in the meantime
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Whatever the answers may look like accountability has to start at the top. A response to authority will always be poor if the authority has no credibility, no integrity and seeks to exploit those who put their trust in them.
While I midly agree with some of your comments you have not come up with any suggestions or comments on how this problem can be tackled.
While you seem to be quite well informed at how screwed up society is (and has been for years)I find it quite alarming that you obviously have a "black and white" view of just about everyone of your views, and not once have you made a suggestion for the better.
This is lpgs point, dont give up on these kids not all come from bad families they just need support etc.
p.s I wouldnt fancy talking to you when you are in a bad mood!
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