Tigra wont pass emissions and dosn't sound healthy
Discussion
Hey guys
Rebuilt a Tigra engine after it's headgasket blew. It starts up and holds idle but sounds very tappy on idle. The timing is spot on and the sensors seem to be working fine however its currently running 3x over the normal emissions. The exhaust is fine no leaks but the Lambda sensor seems to be receiving the wrong data, originally the garage thought the timing was out as this would explain the noise at idle plus the emissions but they have confirmed its all OK.
Issues I found with car on the drive over.
1) Loss of power when keeping constant throttle, it would kangaroo a bit until I went WOT
2) Heater gauge not moving at all
3) Engine warning light would come on for a bit then go off
Any ideas from the PH masses? Would something like a bent/dropped valve cause all this aggro (I would thought something like that would stop the engine from turning over).
My only thought would be if I didn't do the Cam holders up tight enough and the cams are rattling about meaning the valves are not opening enough or am I talking BS?
Any ideas would be great
Rebuilt a Tigra engine after it's headgasket blew. It starts up and holds idle but sounds very tappy on idle. The timing is spot on and the sensors seem to be working fine however its currently running 3x over the normal emissions. The exhaust is fine no leaks but the Lambda sensor seems to be receiving the wrong data, originally the garage thought the timing was out as this would explain the noise at idle plus the emissions but they have confirmed its all OK.
Issues I found with car on the drive over.
1) Loss of power when keeping constant throttle, it would kangaroo a bit until I went WOT
2) Heater gauge not moving at all
3) Engine warning light would come on for a bit then go off
Any ideas from the PH masses? Would something like a bent/dropped valve cause all this aggro (I would thought something like that would stop the engine from turning over).
My only thought would be if I didn't do the Cam holders up tight enough and the cams are rattling about meaning the valves are not opening enough or am I talking BS?
Any ideas would be great
Daston said:
Hey guys
Rebuilt a Tigra engine after it's headgasket blew. It starts up and holds idle but sounds very tappy on idle. The timing is spot on and the sensors seem to be working fine however its currently running 3x over the normal emissions. The exhaust is fine no leaks but the Lambda sensor seems to be receiving the wrong data, originally the garage thought the timing was out as this would explain the noise at idle plus the emissions but they have confirmed its all OK.
Issues I found with car on the drive over.
1) Loss of power when keeping constant throttle, it would kangaroo a bit until I went WOT
2) Heater gauge not moving at all
3) Engine warning light would come on for a bit then go off
Any ideas from the PH masses? Would something like a bent/dropped valve cause all this aggro (I would thought something like that would stop the engine from turning over).
My only thought would be if I didn't do the Cam holders up tight enough and the cams are rattling about meaning the valves are not opening enough or am I talking BS?
Any ideas would be great
Lambda sensors do not receive, they send.Rebuilt a Tigra engine after it's headgasket blew. It starts up and holds idle but sounds very tappy on idle. The timing is spot on and the sensors seem to be working fine however its currently running 3x over the normal emissions. The exhaust is fine no leaks but the Lambda sensor seems to be receiving the wrong data, originally the garage thought the timing was out as this would explain the noise at idle plus the emissions but they have confirmed its all OK.
Issues I found with car on the drive over.
1) Loss of power when keeping constant throttle, it would kangaroo a bit until I went WOT
2) Heater gauge not moving at all
3) Engine warning light would come on for a bit then go off
Any ideas from the PH masses? Would something like a bent/dropped valve cause all this aggro (I would thought something like that would stop the engine from turning over).
My only thought would be if I didn't do the Cam holders up tight enough and the cams are rattling about meaning the valves are not opening enough or am I talking BS?
Any ideas would be great
Really, it sounds like there could be a plethora of problems. And that's going to be difficult or near impossible to diagnose over the internet.
And a dropped valve is a catastrophic failure. Bent valve a bad failure.
Clearly the problem lies with whoever "rebuilt" it !! Without knowing the damage they have done, it will be impossible to try and fix it.
This may be a stupid question, but did you change the oil when the headgasket was done? If you haven't then you could be making a rod for your own back. They run on most grades of oil but are supposed to run 5w x30 semi synth. If it's full of water and milky it will goo up the pump which are also prone to failure on the Tigra's.
The eco-tec's rattle like b
ds when the oil is low and that would cause the hydraulics to make a din. The oil light flashing on could be a sign that the oil is low / contaminated and therefore not getting through the pump up to the top end. And the heater gauge is probably just a bad connection or not been put back on.
As the other guy said, who rebuilt it? If there was any piston to valve damage you'd have known it before the head gasket failed and if they had the head off then why didn't they check the seats?
As far as the emissions are concerned, that could be anything but the first point I'd check having done a few of them is the inlet tube behind the throttle body. It's a 3" diameter tube which is about 2" long. They are a nightmare getting into place first time and if it's crumpled it will allow too much air in making the ecu overfuel which could cause the emissions problem. Check the pipe isn't split and that it's 2 jubilee clips are tight. I've had a few problems with them as the area to work in is very tight as you may well know. Another classic fault with the X14/16XE engines is the breather pipe from cam cover 1 to 2. It's a little 'S' shaped pipe which believe it or not can caused revving and fuelling problems. worth taking the plastic lid off and checking.
You say that the timing was checked but who by? From memory, there are two alignment marks on the cams and it's easy to get the wrong ones. The later engines with a Z14/16XE engines have only one. They used them in the very late 2000/2001 cars and it's unlikely if it was done at a garage they'd have taken it apart without marking them up anyway but again, worth a look.
Like the other guy said, it's near on impossible to diagnose over the net but hopefully something here has helped.
The eco-tec's rattle like b
ds when the oil is low and that would cause the hydraulics to make a din. The oil light flashing on could be a sign that the oil is low / contaminated and therefore not getting through the pump up to the top end. And the heater gauge is probably just a bad connection or not been put back on. As the other guy said, who rebuilt it? If there was any piston to valve damage you'd have known it before the head gasket failed and if they had the head off then why didn't they check the seats?
As far as the emissions are concerned, that could be anything but the first point I'd check having done a few of them is the inlet tube behind the throttle body. It's a 3" diameter tube which is about 2" long. They are a nightmare getting into place first time and if it's crumpled it will allow too much air in making the ecu overfuel which could cause the emissions problem. Check the pipe isn't split and that it's 2 jubilee clips are tight. I've had a few problems with them as the area to work in is very tight as you may well know. Another classic fault with the X14/16XE engines is the breather pipe from cam cover 1 to 2. It's a little 'S' shaped pipe which believe it or not can caused revving and fuelling problems. worth taking the plastic lid off and checking.
You say that the timing was checked but who by? From memory, there are two alignment marks on the cams and it's easy to get the wrong ones. The later engines with a Z14/16XE engines have only one. They used them in the very late 2000/2001 cars and it's unlikely if it was done at a garage they'd have taken it apart without marking them up anyway but again, worth a look.
Like the other guy said, it's near on impossible to diagnose over the net but hopefully something here has helped.
Thanks guys
I topped it up with oil after the headgasket was replaced. Now you mentioned it I did have issues getting the large vaccuum hose on and it is highly likley that the battery might have pinched it. I am due to pick the car up later this week and will have a good nose around.
I am also second guessing myself about the tightness of the cam's if they are loose then that could be the cause of the rattle.
I topped it up with oil after the headgasket was replaced. Now you mentioned it I did have issues getting the large vaccuum hose on and it is highly likley that the battery might have pinched it. I am due to pick the car up later this week and will have a good nose around.
I am also second guessing myself about the tightness of the cam's if they are loose then that could be the cause of the rattle.
Topping up the old oil after a head gasket failure is a waste of time. From what you've said I'd check the 's' pipe, the inlet tube and lift the cam covers off to check that the cam shaft holders are first of all fitted correctly and tightened down to the torque settings. Usually about 20-25 nm from memory (advise to check) but make sure that they are pointing the right way first. There is a direction arrow and they are numbered from memory but usually you'd keep them in sequence when you take them off in the first place so check the obvious. If they are loose then take them off and check for cam / holder damage. If they run too loose then there'll be signs of scoring on both parts. if you do it one by one you won't have to take the cam belt off as the cams won't move.
Get some Wynns oil flush, run it up at idle and drop the oil out and replace it with fresh oil and a new filter. If it has water in it you'll ruin the engine and get no hydraulic pressure at the followers and hydraulic buckets which will make it rattle like a bag of spanners. It could be as simple as dirty oil that's causing the problems you're having.
Get some Wynns oil flush, run it up at idle and drop the oil out and replace it with fresh oil and a new filter. If it has water in it you'll ruin the engine and get no hydraulic pressure at the followers and hydraulic buckets which will make it rattle like a bag of spanners. It could be as simple as dirty oil that's causing the problems you're having.
Is there any visible chaffing damage to the tops of the buckets when off cam? I would personally do an engine flush as par for the course. If you don't get the 'milk' out of the followers then they become blocked and won't let the good oil through thus losing hydraulic pressure which will not only make them rattle badly, it may effect the valves opening and closing too which will obviously effect the emissions.
Another thing to check is the breather pipe from the sump too. They have a habit of going like play-doh and blocking up. That will create sump pressure which can cause over fuelling and 'bore-washing'. Worth checking by squeezing to see if it stays depressed.
Another thing to check is the breather pipe from the sump too. They have a habit of going like play-doh and blocking up. That will create sump pressure which can cause over fuelling and 'bore-washing'. Worth checking by squeezing to see if it stays depressed.
duncancallum said:
they were really prone to sticking valves, the 1400's more so. (If we're talking the mk1) We did loads when I worked at a dealer 10yrs ago.
Yep its a mk1 probably dosnt help if the oil is still stty. Get it back tonight so will take a peep at the weekend. Is engine flush worth it if so any ideas on which type?Gassing Station | Engines & Drivetrain | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff