How about a diesel Spire GTR...
Discussion
Beware - kit car newbie ramblings ahead!!
Thinking about a kit car project for next year, and having seen the Spire GTR, I like the look of it. Seemingly most are fitted with a bike engine of some sort, typically Honda or Kwak, but the chassis are also capable of taking a VAG 1.8T and transaxle. Now I understand the reasoning for the bike engine - light, revvy, sequential box as part of the package etc. But that got me thinking, for something a bit different I wonder what a Spire would be like with a lightly tuned 1.9PD TDI, say around the 180bhp mark, 6 speed box, may be drop an LSD in the transaxle too. It'd be heavier with a rear weight bias which may make the handling a tad interesting, torque aplenty though. Hell I even fancy the idea of running it on used chip fat for a challenge. Plenty of engines around for buttons to use. It'll be used for road and on a few track days a year.
Is there a reason it hasn't been done? (bar the Lithuanian endurance racers who started but then changed their minds)
The other option is a Raw Fulcrum, I prefer the look of a bodied car rather than the typical 7 style. And if I do anything, it'll be painted Cadburys Dairy Milk purple with appropriate Cadburys graphics down the side, a glass-and-a-half pouring in the air intake and a vinyl on the front that looks like a bar of chocolate with the corner opened with choccy squares showing through
Thinking about a kit car project for next year, and having seen the Spire GTR, I like the look of it. Seemingly most are fitted with a bike engine of some sort, typically Honda or Kwak, but the chassis are also capable of taking a VAG 1.8T and transaxle. Now I understand the reasoning for the bike engine - light, revvy, sequential box as part of the package etc. But that got me thinking, for something a bit different I wonder what a Spire would be like with a lightly tuned 1.9PD TDI, say around the 180bhp mark, 6 speed box, may be drop an LSD in the transaxle too. It'd be heavier with a rear weight bias which may make the handling a tad interesting, torque aplenty though. Hell I even fancy the idea of running it on used chip fat for a challenge. Plenty of engines around for buttons to use. It'll be used for road and on a few track days a year.
Is there a reason it hasn't been done? (bar the Lithuanian endurance racers who started but then changed their minds)
The other option is a Raw Fulcrum, I prefer the look of a bodied car rather than the typical 7 style. And if I do anything, it'll be painted Cadburys Dairy Milk purple with appropriate Cadburys graphics down the side, a glass-and-a-half pouring in the air intake and a vinyl on the front that looks like a bar of chocolate with the corner opened with choccy squares showing through
It's been discussed before on this forum (not a Spire, specifically, but the possibility of using a modern VAG turbodiesel in a lightweight kit car).
Personally, I think it's an idea well worth trying - the Westfield 'Weasel' worked relatively well and generated a fair bit of interest, and diesel engine technology has come on massively since then (the Weasel used a 2 litre Ford turbodiesel that only made 110bhp despite special tuning, IIRC).
Biggest problem I can see is having to live with the godawful death-rattle you still get from diesel engines at idle, in an open car with no sound deadening... though the lightweight cars that I have driven with more torque than power (ie. RV8-engined 'Sevens') have been pretty ham-fisted devices, since the torque tends to corrupt the chassis response.
Personally, I think it's an idea well worth trying - the Westfield 'Weasel' worked relatively well and generated a fair bit of interest, and diesel engine technology has come on massively since then (the Weasel used a 2 litre Ford turbodiesel that only made 110bhp despite special tuning, IIRC).
Biggest problem I can see is having to live with the godawful death-rattle you still get from diesel engines at idle, in an open car with no sound deadening... though the lightweight cars that I have driven with more torque than power (ie. RV8-engined 'Sevens') have been pretty ham-fisted devices, since the torque tends to corrupt the chassis response.
I must admit I keep thinking along the same lines, a Spire with a VAG V6 TD with a twin turbo install, livery would be something like the Mercedes livery with the peeled back bodywork exposing the workings. I'm too big for the cockpit though unless there's a way of extending the spire.
So I'm not the only one then. It's a 'one glass of vino' idea, they get much more wacky after a bottle or three!
The V6 option is intriguing too, at least they have the basis for a decent engine sound unlike the fours. I remember hearing a pretty growly sounding diesel Caddy racing in the VW Cup a few years ago. The other thing I remember is it started white, but by the end of the race the rear doors were covered were balck with soot! That's something that would have to sorted for trackday action to not upset others attendees too much.
Previous cars have been various high revving Hondas, and as good as a Spire with something like an S2000 or Civic R motor would be, it'd take some work to match it to a transaxle, and I just fancy a change and a project.
So would a relatively lean 6'4" driver who manages in an S2000 OK fit in a Spire?
The V6 option is intriguing too, at least they have the basis for a decent engine sound unlike the fours. I remember hearing a pretty growly sounding diesel Caddy racing in the VW Cup a few years ago. The other thing I remember is it started white, but by the end of the race the rear doors were covered were balck with soot! That's something that would have to sorted for trackday action to not upset others attendees too much.
Previous cars have been various high revving Hondas, and as good as a Spire with something like an S2000 or Civic R motor would be, it'd take some work to match it to a transaxle, and I just fancy a change and a project.
So would a relatively lean 6'4" driver who manages in an S2000 OK fit in a Spire?
foggy said:
So I'm not the only one then. It's a 'one glass of vino' idea, they get much more wacky after a bottle or three!...
...So would a relatively lean 6'4" driver who manages in an S2000 OK fit in a Spire?
The sad thing is Foggy I'm teetotal! I'm also 6'3 and well overweight (20stone'ish) so I'd be interested in the cockpit size also. Being realistic probably best to stick with what I know, and shove an impreza turbo lump in it. Though with a few more cups of tea, what about a V10TDI......So would a relatively lean 6'4" driver who manages in an S2000 OK fit in a Spire?
AdiT said:
Noisey
Quieter than a bike engined machine I'd imagine with the turbo cutting up the exhaust. Access to any trackday venue without noise test concerns. Just a different type of noise - I envisage gnarly and grumbly with the right exhaust.AdiT said:
Smelly
With the right fuel it could waft of the local chippy 
AdiT said:
Smokey
Could be tuned out, may be, possibly... More research required.AdiT said:
Heavy
Running gear around twice the weight of a bike set up, and a bit more than a comparable petrol 4 pot granted, plenty of torque to shove the thing along though. May corrupt the handling balance. No sequential box as per the bike engine, but on the plus side the dag dag would be almost bullet proof, fit and forget until tuned to destruction. Then buy another for peanuts.AdiT said:
Not revvy
Again, torquey though. My daily drives are currently an S2000 and occasionally a mk4 Golf TDI130. I've done the revvy VTEC thing for a decade plus, thinking out loud what other options there could be. Vibration could be an issue.AdiT said:
Don't do it!
We'll see whether it's feasible after some more digging.AdiT said:
Heavy
Running gear around twice the weight of a bike set up, and a bit more than a comparable petrol 4 pot granted, plenty of torque to shove the thing along though. May corrupt the handling balance. No sequential box as per the bike engine, but on the plus side the dag dag would be almost bullet proof, fit and forget until tuned to destruction. Then buy another for peanuts.Install the DSG option and hey presto...
B33FY said:
Install the DSG option and hey presto...
Tried various VWs with a DSG box with work and never warmed to them, feel too synthetic to me, and the Scirocco that made a stupid little pop at every gear change was just plain annoying. I love the nice mechanical feel of the S2k box, and banging a lever back and forth through a sequential box appeals, rev-matching as required to give that extra dimension to the drive.But gear change via buttons and an automated clutch, I'm ooot!
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