XJR buying advice

[Bristol Rover]

Hi all,

Considering buying an XJR. Currently have a BMW E46 and the seats are giving me chronic back ache, so considering a larger, more comfortable vehicle. Other contenders are an old BMW 7 series (E38) or a Mercedes S-Class (W220).

Really taken with the look and refinement of the XJRs, not to mention the power.

Have done a fair bit of research on the XJRs, including reading Broadbean747's excellent buyer's guide on here (http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=85&t=195961&mid=0&i=0&nmt=My+Advice%2FBuyer%27s+Guide+for+the+XJ8%2FXJR8+1997-2003&mid=0).

I would appreciate any advice on the following issues:

A) What mileages are these cars realistically capable of? High mileage cars aren't a turn-off to me, providing they have a FSH, but are they capable of 200-300,000 miles?
B) Having read-up on the dreaded Nikasil problem, it seems to me that this is now an outdated issue, in that any engine with the problems will have failed long before now. Do you agree? As such, do you think pre-2000 cars represent better value?
C) How often do these cars need servicing? My current car only needs a service every 15,000 miles or so. Assuming nothing major goes wrong, likely yearly annual upkeep (ignoring tyres, mot, tax).
D. What would be the most important issues you would ask a Vendor of one of these when going to look at them. What should I look out for on a test drive?
E. Any other sites/threads you would recommend for further reading?

Have earmarked the following cars as possible buys. Any thoughts on these would be very much appreciated. Are any particularly good or bad value in your opinion?

Budget of anything up to 10k. Less of a risk to buy one for 3k?

1. http://pistonheads.com/sales/3044084.htm

2. http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2011...

3. http://pistonheads.com/sales/3225645.htm

4. http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2011...

5. http://pistonheads.com/sales/3188590.htm

6. http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2011...

7. http://pistonheads.com/sales/3368970.htm

8. http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2011...

9. http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2011...

10. http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/for-sale/search/jagu...

Hope this doesn't appear a boring/selfish thread and can stimulate some debate on this great car!

BR

Edited by Bristol Rover on Tuesday 15th November 11:36

[tedsxjr]

Might help if you specify which year you're interested in - and I'd suggest you do some test drives of used ones before you even start.... as with most cars, there are differences in all the model years and options available. The core stays pretty much the same with jumps between X300 and X308 and Ally body ones... but it's the subtle changes in legroom, driving position, gearknob, etc. that'll drive you crazy, so test as many as you can, then search for the particular one you want.

XJR's are awesome cars, but beauty is expensive to maintain - look at any gorgeous woman - and can be somewhat temperamental. But I dare you to find me a luxury supercar that isn't...

Having said that even driving with one arm and one leg is enjoyable in a Jaaaag....

[Bristol Rover]

Hi. Not too fussed by the year really, anything from 1998 to 2002. Mostly interested in an X308 because of the increased BHP. Have a feeling the pre-2000 cars will offer better value because of the Nikasil issues, but one of the cars I list (car 8) is a 2001 model and seems quite good value to me at 3.8k.

[NormanD]

Bristol Rover said:

I would appreciate any advice on the following issues:

A) What mileages are these cars realistically capable of? High mileage cars aren't a turn-off to me, providing they have a FSH, but are they capable of 200-300,000 miles?
B) Having read-up on the dreaded Nikasil problem, it seems to me that this is now an outdated issue, in that any engine with the problems will have failed long before now. Do you agree? As such, do you think pre-2000 cars represent better value?
C) How often do these cars need servicing? My current car only needs a service every 15,000 miles or so. Assuming nothing major goes wrong, likely yearly annual upkeep (ignoring tyres, mot, tax).
D. What would be the most important issues you would ask a Vendor of one of these when going to look at them. What should I look out for on a test drive?
E. Any other sites/threads you would recommend for further reading?

Yes they will do 200/300K but don't take any notice of the seeled for life Gearbox etc
Change the oil/filter every 60,000 miles same with the Diff

I agree Nikasil is an old issue

Service every year/10,000 miles, personally I change the engine oil every 5,000 and a good look arround

If a 4Lt when/if was the timing tensioners changed, if so has it got the latest Mk3 in

To be honest I don't think test drives tell you anything unless it won't start

There is a good XKR club www.xkec.co.uk with a good Forum, most things are the same for the XJR

[E31Shrew]

Bought a 98 new and the only issue after 18 months and 80000 miles was the excessive tyre wear on the fronts. Inside edge would be down to core after 12000 miles. Jaguar said it was normal!

Edited by E31Shrew on Tuesday 15th November 19:05

[chris.mapey]

I'd buy one from a vendor who knows these cars, rather than someone who's got one "cos it's a bit quick" (if you know what I mean)

I bought mine last Oct, and flew to north of Scotland to get it (private sale) as it looked the best value in the UK at the time, as the tensioners had been replaced with metal ones, later spec water pump done, and a full service history was present.

I have since had the fluid changed in the gearbox, full service carried out & a full top end rebuild done when the head gasket on one bank failed earlier this year.

Buy one on condition rather than spec or age, mine is a 1999 car (I'm tight and wanted a pre 2001 car to save the extra RFL donation to HM Treasury for no extra benefit) and the spec is enhanced on post 2000/2001 cars, but these have a premium on the used market.

I'd look for a car with cruise, upgraded audio & with all the necessary engine work done. They are out there, but you'll have to look for one! Drive as many as you can before buying...

Keep a chunk of your budget back for "unforeseen occurrences", as ultimately you are buying a 10-13 year old car and bits will need replacing.

Hope that helps.

[varsas]

Cruise is a must (don't have it or miss it on anything else but it just suits the car) and the early X308, non-upgraded (i.e. non harmon kardon) stereo is surprisingly poor.

I may have been unlucky but a few I drove where low on power. This happens for a verity or reasons but a good one will spin up the back wheels (or flash the traction light) all the way through second gear (to 60odd mph) unless it's on a very good surface.

Gearboxes also seem to vary, some are very snappy, others are not. Brakes are all a bit poor (IMHO) not up to the performance of the rest of the car, they will stop you but the pedal is a bit...weak...soft...soggy...it moves too far. Not driven a brembo equipped version, but the pads/discs for those are very expensive.

Now then. I had an X308 XJR and I didn't like it. I just didn't get on with it. I couldn't drive it fast because it's too heavy and long, I never felt comfortable or confident driving it like I would a sportscar down a nice twisty road. It just wasn't fun. Exciting, yes...but fun...no. Yes, it was very fast in a straight line but it's too fast...a few seconds of full throttle and you are traveling at silly speed. I was going to end up either getting caught or wrapped round a tree...I had to constantly watch myself. I also didn't like driving it slowly...I reckon the big wheels where to blame but I found it very jiggly on anything other then smooth surfaces (yes, I had my CATS checked out) even on the lowest recommended pressures, and with OEM tyres it just didn't ride right. My 328 is both more comfortable and handles better...

Some days, on a smooth fast road with no traffic it was sublime. Just traveling at speed with no effort from me or the car, just nice smooth inputs to the steering and a touch of throttle...lovely but too rare. Most of the time it annoyed me.

I've driven a few other XJ's and if I where after another I'd get a 4litre X308 XJ8. Really nice smooth, revvy engine, fast enough to be effortless but not so fast you can't rev it and enjoy it. if I had to be able to do 0-100 n 13 seconds I'd try and find a Daimler super V8 or buy an XJR and put 17inch wheels on it.

I must say though before I sold the car I lent it out to a few friends and they all loved it, and keep badgering me to get another one so it is just me but if you are saying you want something comfortable...maybe just try a 4 litre. If the XJR didn't exist it's be a very worthy range topper, and it's everything I would want from a big Jaguar saloon.

P.S. watch for laquer peeling on the 6 cylinder models, especially Carnival red ones. Doesn't seem as common on X308's?

Edited by varsas on Wednesday 16th November 16:31

[tedsxjr]

varsas said:

Cruise is a must (don't have it or miss it on anything else but it just suits the car) and the early X308, non-upgraded (i.e. non harmon kardon) stereo is surprisingly poor.

I may have been unlucky but a few I drove where low on power. This happens for a verity or reasons but a good one will spin up the back wheels (or flash the traction light) all the way through second gear (to 60odd mph) unless it's on a very good surface.

Gearboxes also seem to vary, some are very snappy, others are not. Brakes are all a bit poor (IMHO) not up to the performance of the rest of the car, they will stop you but the pedal is a bit...weak...soft...soggy...it moves too far. Not driven a brembo equipped version, but the pads/discs for those are very expensive.

Now then. I had an X308 XJR and I didn't like it. I just didn't get on with it. I couldn't drive it fast because it's too heavy and long, I never felt comfortable or confident driving it like I would a sportscar down a nice twisty road. It just wasn't fun. Exciting, yes...but fun...no. Yes, it was very fast in a straight line but it's too fast...a few seconds of full throttle and you are traveling at silly speed. I was going to end up either getting caught or wrapped round a tree...I had to constantly watch myself. I also didn't like driving it slowly...I reckon the big wheels where to blame but I found it very jiggly on anything other then smooth surfaces (yes, I had my CATS checked out) even on the lowest recommended pressures, and with OEM tyres it just didn't ride right. My 328 is both more comfortable and handles better...

Some days, on a smooth fast road with no traffic it was sublime. Just traveling at speed with no effort from me or the car, just nice smooth inputs to the steering and a touch of throttle...lovely but too rare. Most of the time it annoyed me.

I've driven a few other XJ's and if I where after another I'd get a 4litre X308 XJ8. Really nice smooth, revvy engine, fast enough to be effortless but not so fast you can't rev it and enjoy it. if I had to be able to do 0-100 n 13 seconds I'd try and find a Daimler super V8 or buy an XJR and put 17inch wheels on it.

I must say though before I sold the car I lent it out to a few friends and they all loved it, and keep badgering me to get another one so it is just me but if you are saying you want something comfortable...maybe just try a 4 litre. If the XJR didn't exist it's be a very worthy range topper, and it's everything I would want from a big Jaguar saloon.

P.S. watch for laquer peeling on the 6 cylinder models, especially Carnival red ones. Doesn't seem as common on X308's?

Edited by varsas on Wednesday 16th November 16:31

Okay, just to put a few things straight, the XJR (not standard XJ) is the top of the line regardless whether x300 or x308, so has all the bells and whistles. Far as I know, the only options were paint color and maybe navigation or not. All XJRs came with uprated brakes, suspension, gearboxes, rear ends. It's the complete package.

Either one is not a BMW 328 or anything even remotely comparable. Not even a 528 or a 740i comes close. It's not about having a 13 second car. It's not about perfection in handling and perfection in performance. If you want those, go buy a Fiddly 430 or a Slamborghini Galliardo. Or a McLaren SLR if you really want to rock.

XJRs are sleepers. They're the car you don't welly often unless you have very deep pockets because:
1. you will get tickets galore cause it's impossible to be heavy footed and stay below whatever the illegal limit is.
2. you'll put people into ditches cause they'll see a big boat coming at them at an incredible speed.
3. you'll be doing less than 3mpg.

However, in the right hands, any XJR will stomp on most ricers at the lights, overtake any truck or caravan safely with even a small window due to the incredible torque of the engine in midrange speeds even without kickdown, do an incredible speed round bollards at an autocross track thanks to the 50-50 weight balance, run all day at double the UK limits in Germany, and when you get out of it after an entire day on the road, it feels like you just stepped in.

Yes, they do tramline pretty badly, and you need to be aware of this, but then so do most supercars with 255 or greater tyres on the front. Low profile tyres are hard and they will try to run flat over yellow and white rubber lines that aren't.

Yes, it'll hurt if you go into a pothole. Suspension is hard, but stays completely flat around corners, so you can take them whatever speed you want. Very predictable handling, unless it's been abused. But the gearbox should shift hard and quicker than you could in Sport mode, but never jerk or slip. Normal mode shifts should be totally smooth even on full throttle. If not, then walk away. Should also leave some parallel black stripes in sport mode from the lights.

All the electronics should work, or else things get expensive.

Check everything. If something doesn't feel right, walk away. If you can buy from someone in the Jag Club, they're usually enthusiasts which means they're committed to the cars, they look after them, and they don't abuse them.

I don't usually look for service history especially on an old car. Experienced driver/mechanic can tell everything about the car after inspection. Pay an enthusiast club member or an indie Jag mechanic to do a full one, maybe even both if you're spending 5 figures. Make sure suspension parts are okay, that's when the car floats and clonks and handles bad. Amazing what new bushings can do, but any and all work is expensive on these cars. Mind you, still cheaper on parts and labour than a Lexus!!!

XJRs aren't just cars - they're about the experience of driving the ultimately safe luxuriously appointed stylish automobile that makes you feel special and cossetted in ways other luxury car makers just can't.

So the net of this is, in my opinion, the XJRs are fantastic performance luxury automobiles in all the best ways, not the best in any specific category except luxury.

The best thing is, you can go one of two ways:
Buy an older X300 for cheap and treat it as a throwaway if something major goes wrong.
Buy a recent X308, find a good indie mechanic and maintain it well, and a warranty.

Either way you'll have a grin on yer face every time you get out of it. Cheshire cat got nuthin on Jag drivers.....

[williamp]

not what the OP was asking, but what about the X350 XJR??

[Bristol Rover]

Many thanks for the replies so far.

[Bristol Rover]

Found a possible one I like - has Full Jaguar Main Dealer SH but the Vendor (independent dealer) does not know if the timing chain tensioners have been replaced. Car has done 97k, 1999. £3.5k.

If I ring up the Main Dealer that has maintained the car (HA Fox), will they know what work has been done?

Is it a case of 'when' rather than 'if' these fail and need replacing, or might one get lucky? Otherwise I might as well add 2k to the asking price.

[NormanD]

Is that HAFox at Guildford

They should be able to tell you, worth a phone call

If they need changing a good Independant should do the job for approx £1,200

[varsas]

tedsxjr said:

Okay, just to put a few things straight, the XJR (not standard XJ) is the top of the line regardless whether x300 or x308, so has all the bells and whistles. Far as I know, the only options were paint color and maybe navigation or not. All XJRs came with uprated brakes, suspension, gearboxes, rear ends. It's the complete package.

No, that isn't right. Not sure about the X300 XJR but the X308 had plenty of options. Brembo 'R' performance brakes, Harmon Kardon stereo, electrically folding rear view mirrors, parking sensors, cruise control, sunroof, memory seats and plenty more where options. These changed throughout the cars life as more things where made standard and others became available.

The non upgraded X308 XJR uses the same brakes as the XJ8.

The gearbox was a Mercedes item as the ZF unit in the XJ8 couldn't handle the torque. I'm not sure what you mean when you say the XJR has an upgraded 'rear end'.

I'm glad you are happy with your car (put some pics up in your profile!), I'm sure the OP will be too.

Bristol Rover said:

Found a possible one I like - has Full Jaguar Main Dealer SH but the Vendor (independent dealer) does not know if the timing chain tensioners have been replaced. Car has done 97k, 1999. £3.5k.

If I ring up the Main Dealer that has maintained the car (HA Fox), will they know what work has been done?

Is it a case of 'when' rather than 'if' these fail and need replacing, or might one get lucky? Otherwise I might as well add 2k to the asking price.

It's not expensive to check the tensioners, you just remove the rocker covers and look.

My car had 98k miles on it, and when swapped the gen 1 plastic tensioners on it where fine. I guess you could argue that everything will fail on a car at some point, the problem here is that the condition is difficult to check and if they do go they'll take the engine with them. You might get lucky, and maybe you'll decide that you'll be doing low mileage and will take the risk. For the record I paid for mine to be done (didn't cost £2k though..I think the final bill was a bit under £1k...don't remember) and it made it much easier to sell.

Edited by varsas on Thursday 17th November 08:49

[Output Flange]

So, I bought an X308 XJR a few months back for a price beginning with a 2.

My thoughts are:

1. Unless you have proof that the tensioners have been changed, assume they haven't. It's the top tensioners that need doing, and I've been quoted around £500 from a specialist.

2. Early cars seem to use cheaper parts - standard XJ8 brakes, and other XJR specific parts for a pre-853xxx VIN seem to be slightly cheaper.

3. Early cars have poor brakes. Because, as mentioned above, they're the same as the rest of the range but trying to reign in 370bhp. I've fitted Ferodo DS2500 pads to mine, and it has made the world of difference. Brembos are expensive, and I can't see that they'd be needed over upgraded pads.

4. Early cars appear not to make the book power figure. The later cars got a revised engine (AJ26 to AJ27 rings a bell?) using different AFM and various other bits and pieces, and do seem to make more power.

5. There are a bunch of "known issues" and fixes - cleaning the TB, checking the throttle cable fully opens the TB, etc etc. Read up on them, and use them to identify an enthusiast owner.

6. All the bushes will be shot. Fact.

7. It'll want tyres. Often.

8. It'll want fuel. More often.

If you can find a car in the spec you want at the lower end of the price range, I'd suggest doing that and using the remainder to bring it up to scratch - that way you can be sure that all the right jobs have been done.

The last bonus is that they're actually pretty good to work on yourself - most things are held together with factory-issue cable ties, and it's all pretty logical. Much nicer to work on than the BMWs I've had.

[NormanD]

I agree with Output Flange

My local Jag specialist, I can give you his details if you wish, would make a detailed list of jobs to be done if you took the car to him, then prioritise them in order, so you can spend if and when funds are available