Mk1 996 GT3 suspension options
Discussion
Hi all,
I'm having a heap of work done to my GT3 and am weighing up suspension options while the car's in bits. The existing parts (Bilsteins as standard right?) need new adjuster rings as they're seized solid and the outsides are also quite corroded.
I'm trying to understand what I have to gain/lose by making changes. Dampers, collars and things were last touched at the start of 2007.
As far as I can tell I have the following options:
1) Get the Bilsteins refurbed
2) Get some KWs, which seem to be well-regarded. It looks like the v3s are the ones to have.
3) Other - unknown options abound, I'm sure!
I'm by no means a driving god (next year will be the year of much tuition), and my driving is mostly going to be on the road, with a few track days thrown in.
Can anyone point me in the direction of a thread for someone with as little knowledge as I have? Or post here with any opinions?
Ben
I'm having a heap of work done to my GT3 and am weighing up suspension options while the car's in bits. The existing parts (Bilsteins as standard right?) need new adjuster rings as they're seized solid and the outsides are also quite corroded.
I'm trying to understand what I have to gain/lose by making changes. Dampers, collars and things were last touched at the start of 2007.
As far as I can tell I have the following options:
1) Get the Bilsteins refurbed
2) Get some KWs, which seem to be well-regarded. It looks like the v3s are the ones to have.
3) Other - unknown options abound, I'm sure!
I'm by no means a driving god (next year will be the year of much tuition), and my driving is mostly going to be on the road, with a few track days thrown in.
Can anyone point me in the direction of a thread for someone with as little knowledge as I have? Or post here with any opinions?
Ben
What makes you say that, GT Glee? I'm assuming that refurbed Bilsteins are the cheapest option, but what other advantages are there?
I'm not afraid to spend a bit of money to get something better, but the more I can learn in the meantime the better!
Current prices looking like this:
1) £840 for Bilstein refurbs (replace piston seals and evaluate and reseal the units, excluding any parts needed), vs. £1,570 for brand new ones all round.
2) £2,631 for complete replacement with KW Variant 3 kit with new springs shocks etc.
All inc. VAT.
I'm not afraid to spend a bit of money to get something better, but the more I can learn in the meantime the better!
Current prices looking like this:
1) £840 for Bilstein refurbs (replace piston seals and evaluate and reseal the units, excluding any parts needed), vs. £1,570 for brand new ones all round.
2) £2,631 for complete replacement with KW Variant 3 kit with new springs shocks etc.
All inc. VAT.
Edited by all2ofme on Friday 18th November 14:57
I'd second the Bilstein refurb option. As well as being cheaper, Bilsteins are also quality consistent dampers. I happen to have KW V3s on my 996 (fitted by previous owner) and they do seem very good, but I'm not convinced they would offer an amazing advantage over standard Bilsteins on a GT3.
Hi Ben,
I refurbed my o/e bilsteins on my mk1 last year, good value at £80 a corner. They did indeed freshen up the cars handling and were very compliant for the uk roads.. but on track they were left wanting, to soft and they didnt like the kerbs..
After trying a set of JRZ & then a set of Motons, i ended up going for a set of KW Clubsports which have been the best on track.. but they are harsh on the road on even the softest settings.
If your going to use the car mainly for the road and the odd trackday, then refurb the billys..
Or if you going track mental like me, get some Clubsports!
Ade
I refurbed my o/e bilsteins on my mk1 last year, good value at £80 a corner. They did indeed freshen up the cars handling and were very compliant for the uk roads.. but on track they were left wanting, to soft and they didnt like the kerbs..
After trying a set of JRZ & then a set of Motons, i ended up going for a set of KW Clubsports which have been the best on track.. but they are harsh on the road on even the softest settings.
If your going to use the car mainly for the road and the odd trackday, then refurb the billys..
Or if you going track mental like me, get some Clubsports!
Ade
Thanks for the feedback so far, everyone.
£80 per corner? £320 all in, then? I know that's only the internals and that the outside would still look like crap (as opposed to my beautiful new floorpan!), but that makes me wonder about the £840 quote I've had for what seems like exactly that. The car's already in bits so no difference in labour that I can see.
Or maybe the difference is swallowed up in getting lock rings and collars (which would be included with the new ones and the KWs)... Hmmm.
£80 per corner? £320 all in, then? I know that's only the internals and that the outside would still look like crap (as opposed to my beautiful new floorpan!), but that makes me wonder about the £840 quote I've had for what seems like exactly that. The car's already in bits so no difference in labour that I can see.
Or maybe the difference is swallowed up in getting lock rings and collars (which would be included with the new ones and the KWs)... Hmmm.
all2ofme said:
I know that's only the internals and that the outside would still look like crap (as opposed to my beautiful new floorpan!)
I wouldn't worry about that unless you intend to take the wheels off, prop it up on axle stands and then sit there admiring it in the garage. It's the internals that count with dampers end of story. Pretty anodising and funky CNC machining is for the ladies. In this respect Bilsteins look a bit agricultural, but the internals are top quality. Got more info just now - apparently the Bilstein refurbed GT3 shocks are £175/corner, which is where the £840 came from. Maybe you got a good deal, Ade. Or me a potential bad one.
What would the difference be with those RS ones? The same, just firmer, but unrefurbed from new? What would the advantage be of getting those from you? I'm probably being dim, not doubting your intentions!
Will each end up lasting as long? If the KWs will last longer and not be a big trade off (esp. for road driving), then I'd almost be inclined to spring the extra for them. They'd go nicely with my progressing underside!:
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/996-gt2-gt3-...
(This GT3 is turning into more of a keeper by the day...)
What would the difference be with those RS ones? The same, just firmer, but unrefurbed from new? What would the advantage be of getting those from you? I'm probably being dim, not doubting your intentions!
Will each end up lasting as long? If the KWs will last longer and not be a big trade off (esp. for road driving), then I'd almost be inclined to spring the extra for them. They'd go nicely with my progressing underside!:
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/996-gt2-gt3-...
(This GT3 is turning into more of a keeper by the day...)
all2ofme said:
If the KWs will last longer and not be a big trade off (esp. for road driving), then I'd almost be inclined to spring the extra for them.
Whoaaa, what makes you think KWs will last longer than refurbed Bilsteins? Almost sounds like you'd prefer to spend the cash and are just looking for a way of self-justification. Dampers alone do not make much difference to the handling, unless of course they are totally knackered. Refurbed Bilsteins will be perfectly up to the job. You might want to consider what level of valving you go for in the refurb, but that's about all. Not sure where you got that cost of £840 
to overhaul the standard Bilsteins ?
Perhaps someone's added "their bit" to the bill . . . .
The charge for the front or rear dampers on the 996 GT3/2 is £80 +VAT each. That's a standard charge.
IF however you need damper shafts (because the hard chroming is either pitted or flaking) the shafts cost £25 each.
I've just had the two rears done on my GT2, both needed shafts and the total cost was £265 IIRC (that included P & P)
The BEST price I could get ONE NEW rear damper for was £280.
It's no brainer, they'll do another 20K miles and most likely more (as they've now modified the bushings to improve both the bushes and the seals durability)
How much is a set of KWs going to cost you ? and just as with the Bilsteins you need to add the costs of removal. fitting, geo, ride height and corner weight adjustment.
to overhaul the standard Bilsteins ? Perhaps someone's added "their bit" to the bill . . . .
The charge for the front or rear dampers on the 996 GT3/2 is £80 +VAT each. That's a standard charge.
IF however you need damper shafts (because the hard chroming is either pitted or flaking) the shafts cost £25 each.
I've just had the two rears done on my GT2, both needed shafts and the total cost was £265 IIRC (that included P & P)
The BEST price I could get ONE NEW rear damper for was £280.
It's no brainer, they'll do another 20K miles and most likely more (as they've now modified the bushings to improve both the bushes and the seals durability)
How much is a set of KWs going to cost you ? and just as with the Bilsteins you need to add the costs of removal. fitting, geo, ride height and corner weight adjustment.
Edited by Slippydiff on Saturday 19th November 20:41
In the main I believe you are concerned with finish due to the floorpan restoration you've had done. Perhaps consider a DIY resto of the Bilstein casings. You could spray paint them (finish is non-vital) and have the lock rings zinc coated. Stick them back on with optimoly to prevent them seizing together again.
uktrailmonster - I've got no reason to think the KWs would last longer than the refurbed Bilsteins other than a feeling that something new should last longer than something refurbed. A feeling only, though - hence the "if"! I'm all for spending more money if I get something for it, but by no means am I out to have my pockets emptied unnecessarily 
slippydiff - The £840 was Ninemeister's quote for having the standard Bilsteins done. Apparently the GT3 ones are £175+VAT per shock (they double checked), and that's *without* the new shafts. I'll query them again, as both you and Ade have said it should be cheaper.
Quote for KW v3s was £2,631 inc. VAT. Fitting, geo, ride height and corner weights is the same for all of my options as far as I can tell - the car is in bits at the moment.
gt glee - re: finish being my main concern - partly, perhaps. I've always been keen to have a good job done though, not just a good enough job. I think the floorpan is an example of that. Not a full acid-dipped bare metal respray, but not just touched up in a few places either. A sorted floorpan rather than a lightly-treated problem waiting to happen in other words.
I like the idea of improving things I look after - it'd be nice if the car left me in better condition than it came to me in.
Thanks for bearing with me on all this, you lot. I'm not mechanically minded in the slightest!
slippydiff - The £840 was Ninemeister's quote for having the standard Bilsteins done. Apparently the GT3 ones are £175+VAT per shock (they double checked), and that's *without* the new shafts. I'll query them again, as both you and Ade have said it should be cheaper.
Quote for KW v3s was £2,631 inc. VAT. Fitting, geo, ride height and corner weights is the same for all of my options as far as I can tell - the car is in bits at the moment.
gt glee - re: finish being my main concern - partly, perhaps. I've always been keen to have a good job done though, not just a good enough job. I think the floorpan is an example of that. Not a full acid-dipped bare metal respray, but not just touched up in a few places either. A sorted floorpan rather than a lightly-treated problem waiting to happen in other words.
I like the idea of improving things I look after - it'd be nice if the car left me in better condition than it came to me in.
Thanks for bearing with me on all this, you lot. I'm not mechanically minded in the slightest!
If you're not going to be tracking the car frequently don't bother with the KWs. Whilst a good quality 2 or 3 way adjustable damper/spring set is of benefit on track, the massive price increase really isn't justified on a GT3 used mainly on the road (IMO)
I fitted some very expensive Ohlins 3 way adjustables to my 996 GT2 recently, they were mightily impressive (but the standard Bilsteins had done 70K miles so were well past their best with one of the rears leaking very badly) but I then got back into my Mk 1 GT3 with new front Bisteins and less than 15K miles rears.
The Bilsteins provide the perfect blend of compliance and body control (the ride is better than that of my BMW 335D Sport BMW)
As I, UKt and Ade (Keep it lit) have all said, get the standard Bilsteins overhauled (as they're off the car already ? take them or post them there yourself and pay them directly) They'll be £80 each plus vat as long as the shafts are serviceable.
You certainly don't want to be paying £175 per corner because they're "GT3 dampers" ! !
Edit to add, if you're really fussy, you could get Bilstein to strip the dampers, have the bodies back, get them polished and yellow pasivated.
Personally I wouldn't bother, Bilstein will clean them up and degrease them, I'd fit the new spring seats with Optimoly or Wurth aluminium based grease and then cover the lot in waxoyl.
I fitted some very expensive Ohlins 3 way adjustables to my 996 GT2 recently, they were mightily impressive (but the standard Bilsteins had done 70K miles so were well past their best with one of the rears leaking very badly) but I then got back into my Mk 1 GT3 with new front Bisteins and less than 15K miles rears.
The Bilsteins provide the perfect blend of compliance and body control (the ride is better than that of my BMW 335D Sport BMW)
As I, UKt and Ade (Keep it lit) have all said, get the standard Bilsteins overhauled (as they're off the car already ? take them or post them there yourself and pay them directly) They'll be £80 each plus vat as long as the shafts are serviceable.
You certainly don't want to be paying £175 per corner because they're "GT3 dampers" ! !
Edit to add, if you're really fussy, you could get Bilstein to strip the dampers, have the bodies back, get them polished and yellow pasivated.
Personally I wouldn't bother, Bilstein will clean them up and degrease them, I'd fit the new spring seats with Optimoly or Wurth aluminium based grease and then cover the lot in waxoyl.
Edited by Slippydiff on Friday 18th November 19:48
keep it lit said:
After trying a set of JRZ & then a set of Motons, i ended up going for a set of KW Clubsports which have been the best on track.. but they are harsh on the road on even the softest settings.
out of interest, why after trying the JRZ's and the Moton's did you get the KW's?I've been using JRZ's on a race car and nothing else i have used felt anywhere near as good.
uktrailmonster said:
Whoaaa, what makes you think KWs will last longer than refurbed Bilsteins? Almost sounds like you'd prefer to spend the cash and are just looking for a way of self-justification. Dampers alone do not make much difference to the handling, unless of course they are totally knackered. Refurbed Bilsteins will be perfectly up to the job. You might want to consider what level of valving you go for in the refurb, but that's about all.
KW are in a different league quality wise and my Bilsteins were gone by 17,000 miles (two leaking), but not many people have put big miles on KW so difficult to be sure - but side by side in a box I know which I would bet on.And, as you would expect, the KWs are much better on track. BUT I found them too much for the road, even softened off ( more of a spring issue than a rebound/bump one). If it is for road use stick with Bilsteins - and put some copper slip / grease on the adjusters for next time!
Enjoy!
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