Cuban Oil Industry About To Take Off, Chinese Assisted, U.S Not Happy
Discussion
Just read that a Chinese rig is going to start drilling in Cuban waters, operated by a.n.other and the merkins are not happy. It seems anti Castro lobbyists in the U.S do not want Cuba to succeed in this as they think it would bolster F+R Castro and the U.S is worried about the threat it may pose to the Floridan coast. Would Cuba be a better place with this income or not?
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Non-issue. Travel embargos are being lifted between here and there. Times are changing in Cuba and Raul knows not to stand in the way. Once the ex-Pat Cuban money can flow back and forth from Miami, Cuba will go back to being a psuedo 51st state with bigger tourist operations than any other carribean nation. On your oil topic, I have an acquaintance that recently visited Cuba in an official status and learned that they actually asked US oil companies to go in with that operation but the company could not get the Obama Greenies to OK the applications required so they went to China. This will all get better soon, one way or the other.
Edited by Jimbeaux on Friday 18th November 14:26
Jimbeaux said:
This will all get better soon, one way or the other.
What do you mean by that? Do you think a realistic influx of earned income would benefit the Cubans? Why would they become a pseudo 51st state, isn't that what the revolution fought against? I think that would be sad if so. anonymous said:
[redacted]
I mean that either Obama will yield to commom sense and allow more drilling permits (which he actually has begun to do) or the next President will.As to more income for Cubans, of course that will help. As to the 51st state, that is what I meant by Psuedo. The wealth of the combined ex-pat-anti-Castro collective will basically make Cuba a part of the the US in all but name by the time the economic ties become solidified between familiy members in both nations. The place is ripe for freedom, not the enslavement the "Revolution" brought them.
Yes, Cuba has all sorts of evil stuff going on; detention without trial, torture of prisoners etc. Naturally that takes place within the American base on Cuba known as Guantanamo Bay.
As the US Justice Department declared the Guantanamo Bay detention camp on Cuba to be outside U.S. legal jurisdiction it is not obvious how the administration would manage an about turn to make Cuba the 51st state!
As the US Justice Department declared the Guantanamo Bay detention camp on Cuba to be outside U.S. legal jurisdiction it is not obvious how the administration would manage an about turn to make Cuba the 51st state!
Guam said:
Does anyone on here READ and DIGEST posts anymore?
Or have we forgotten what a qualification is in a sentence.
I am sure it cant be political myopia that causes posters to respond out of context can it?
Oh, certain posters here don't need to respond to what a post actually says, they are perfectly able to decide that it means something else if it lets them have another ride on their hobby horse.Or have we forgotten what a qualification is in a sentence.
I am sure it cant be political myopia that causes posters to respond out of context can it?
NorthernBoy said:
Oh, certain posters here don't need to respond to what a post actually says, they are perfectly able to decide that it means something else if it lets them have another ride on their hobby horse.
IMO this is all interlinked and it's fair to comment on Guantanamo. The way I see it is that this is a chance for Cuba to enrich itself from its own resources, with outside help but not with outside reliance. I don't think that the U.S want this to happen because they bear grudges and Cuban success would represent a failure of half a century of U.S policy . The influx of cash from the U.S Cuban community would be seen as American 'ownership' of Cuba once more and victory for the U.S. This may be a result of my own bias! I do hope Cuba doesn't get dragged into a new standoff between the U.S and China as the Aussies are.
Out of interest if Cuba approached the U.S first was this before or after the BP GOM disaster? Tinfoil hat donned.
Ozzie Osmond said:
Yes, Cuba has all sorts of evil stuff going on; detention without trial, torture of prisoners etc. Naturally that takes place within the American base on Cuba known as Guantanamo Bay.
As the US Justice Department declared the Guantanamo Bay detention camp on Cuba to be outside U.S. legal jurisdiction it is not obvious how the administration would manage an about turn to make Cuba the 51st state!
What about the part where no Cuban can leave the country of his own accord?? Why do they have to risk their lives swimming 90 miles onmakeshift rafts?? Don't be stupid. As to the 51st state.....I said pseudo, look it up. I also said it would be the Cuban ex-pats that made that a 51st pseudo state, pay attention!As the US Justice Department declared the Guantanamo Bay detention camp on Cuba to be outside U.S. legal jurisdiction it is not obvious how the administration would manage an about turn to make Cuba the 51st state!
Guam said:
Ozzie Osmond said:
Yes, Cuba has all sorts of evil stuff going on; detention without trial, torture of prisoners etc. Naturally that takes place within the American base on Cuba known as Guantanamo Bay.
As the US Justice Department declared the Guantanamo Bay detention camp on Cuba to be outside U.S. legal jurisdiction it is not obvious how the administration would manage an about turn to make Cuba the 51st state!
Does anyone on here READ and DIGEST posts anymore?As the US Justice Department declared the Guantanamo Bay detention camp on Cuba to be outside U.S. legal jurisdiction it is not obvious how the administration would manage an about turn to make Cuba the 51st state!
Or have we forgotten what a qualification is in a sentence.
I am sure it cant be political myopia that causes posters to respond out of context can it?
anonymous said:
[redacted]
You are correct, they have the things you say but not to the degree you may be led to believe. Yes, they are a happy people that could teach lessons on how to remain happy when all around you is s
t. By "enslavement" I was referring to the fact that many seem to forget, the Cuban people cannot leave Cuba of their own free will. What would you call that? Sway said:
I'd just like to understand your point about enslavement - my limited understanding was that, whilst poor, the inhabitants had excellent core education (remember something about literacy and numeracy rates that we and the US can't achieve), and a generally happy outlook on life, with fairly minimal 'human rights' issues.... Enslavement seems a strong word compared to my understanding (poor though it is) of Cuba as a country?
Sam
The socialist aspects of the communist system does introduce benefits in a number of areas over and above the Oligarchical or monarchical systems that may have existed before. Cuba was a strange case, nominally a democracy it was really a carribean version of Spain pre-1936. A country run by the elite for the Elite and everyone else was just a peasant who had to do what they were told.Sam
The education could only improve under these circumstances.
As for being a jolly bunch. The many Cubans I met while living in Madrid were all extraordinarily condemning of the cuban state, they found it as bad a place to live for personal freedoms as anyone would say about iraq under the Saddam regime.
You can still be arrested for criticism of the state and other things we would happily write a whole thread about on here.
The happy outlook is a national psyche that was there pre Castro and will be there post commmunism.
Mikeyboy said:
The socialist aspects of the communist system does introduce benefits in a number of areas over and above the Oligarchical or monarchical systems that may have existed before. Cuba was a strange case, nominally a democracy it was really a carribean version of Spain pre-1936. A country run by the elite for the Elite and everyone else was just a peasant who had to do what they were told.
The education could only improve under these circumstances.
As for being a jolly bunch. The many Cubans I met while living in Madrid were all extraordinarily condemning of the cuban state, they found it as bad a place to live for personal freedoms as anyone would say about iraq under the Saddam regime.
You can still be arrested for criticism of the state and other things we would happily write a whole thread about on here.
The happy outlook is a national psyche that was there pre Castro and will be there post commmunism.
I disagree with the sentiment of some of your post. Saying education could only improve seeks to diminish the fact that it has flourished under the Castro regime. You might as well say 'meh'! Health too. The education could only improve under these circumstances.
As for being a jolly bunch. The many Cubans I met while living in Madrid were all extraordinarily condemning of the cuban state, they found it as bad a place to live for personal freedoms as anyone would say about iraq under the Saddam regime.
You can still be arrested for criticism of the state and other things we would happily write a whole thread about on here.
The happy outlook is a national psyche that was there pre Castro and will be there post commmunism.
Exiles are highly unlikely to be complimentary.
Also I think you may underestimate the amount their current psyche is as a result of the Castro decades, not so much from before.
I'd challenge you on the Saddam and Iraq analogy too. Mass graves, chemical weapons?
My take is that they have to change, introducing freedoms slowly, no rush like China where the old pre-communist problems are resurfacing to extreme levels. An influx of oil money would help greatly and I think the ruling party will use it more wisely than African dictators and Chavez for example. They need to keep the U.S and China at arms length though as that's the next global confrontation brewing.
Mikeyboy said:
The socialist aspects of the communist system does introduce benefits in a number of areas over and above the Oligarchical or monarchical systems that may have existed before. Cuba was a strange case, nominally a democracy it was really a carribean version of Spain pre-1936. A country run by the elite for the Elite and everyone else was just a peasant who had to do what they were told.
The education could only improve under these circumstances.
As for being a jolly bunch. The many Cubans I met while living in Madrid were all extraordinarily condemning of the cuban state, they found it as bad a place to live for personal freedoms as anyone would say about iraq under the Saddam regime.
You can still be arrested for criticism of the state and other things we would happily write a whole thread about on here.
The happy outlook is a national psyche that was there pre Castro and will be there post commmunism.
I disagree with the sentiment of some of your post. Saying education could only improve seeks to diminish the fact that it has flourished under the Castro regime. You might as well say 'meh'! Health too. The education could only improve under these circumstances.
As for being a jolly bunch. The many Cubans I met while living in Madrid were all extraordinarily condemning of the cuban state, they found it as bad a place to live for personal freedoms as anyone would say about iraq under the Saddam regime.
You can still be arrested for criticism of the state and other things we would happily write a whole thread about on here.
The happy outlook is a national psyche that was there pre Castro and will be there post commmunism.
Exiles are highly unlikely to be complimentary.
Also I think you may underestimate the amount their current psyche is as a result of the Castro decades, not so much from before.
I'd challenge you on the Saddam and Iraq analogy too. Mass graves, chemical weapons?
My take is that they have to change, introducing freedoms slowly, no rush like China where the old pre-communist problems are resurfacing to extreme levels. An influx of oil money would help greatly and I think the ruling party will use it more wisely than African dictators and Chavez for example. They need to keep the U.S and China at arms length though as that's the next global confrontation brewing.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I don't think that was the sentiment of my post, education and health have flourished under the communist regime and the sentiment was that this is one of the main purposes of communism, to create a society where education, opportunities and the welfare of the people is the aim of the state. There is nothing "meh" about that. There is an element of "meh" in that you would expect anything else though.As for the communists creating a society of happiness as opposed to it being the national psyche. The Cubans were known before Castro as the party people of the carribean, and thats an enviable title, so how has communism been the cause of it?
And as for the simile with Iraq, i was talking about a society where stepping out of line could have you summarily executed or spend the rest of you life in prison. And stepping out of line is just by being a little bit outspoken about how crap your boss is, who just happens to be a party member. Do you also really tink that post revoulition there weren't a few people who disappeared? Why do you think so many people fled to Florida or Spain, and still do? For the weather?
All said though it seems to me from this post that you have made your mind up from the original question anyway. Yes the Cubans will do well if the Chinese drill for oil off their coast. They would do better though in a more open society however and getting Raul and his family more money to prop up the regime isn't going to help them get that.
Mikeyboy said:
.....
All said though it seems to me from this post that you have made your mind up from the original question anyway Yes the Cubans will do well if the Chinese drill for oil off their coast. They would do better though in a more open society however and getting Raul and his family more money to prop up the regime isn't going to help them get that.
No I have my leanings but not made my mind up, don't know enough on the matter to do so. I cannot help but feel that the U.S do not want this to succeed, regardless of the Chinese aspect. Willing to be proved wrong. Just think this COULD be a significant moment for Cuba, however it pans out, but also potentially significant in a new U.S and China rivalry, as I mentioned the U.S troop plan for Australia is another example of possible friction. I haven't seen any thread on that subject on here, perhaps not important? All said though it seems to me from this post that you have made your mind up from the original question anyway Yes the Cubans will do well if the Chinese drill for oil off their coast. They would do better though in a more open society however and getting Raul and his family more money to prop up the regime isn't going to help them get that.
The one land that's never in the Westerm news... or rarely, cos 'they' don't want you to know. The day Cuba has a bloody MacDonalds in Havana will be the day that should never come imo.
As for the oil, Canada has been involved with Cuba for some time (bet that annoys a certain country!)
Trade between Canada and Cuba was almost $1 billion about 7 years ago.
Cuba is at the forefront in healthcare, crise sake their life expectancy is the same almost as the UK!
They (Cuba) teach and send doctors worldwide (but rarely do you read about it).
And their education is top dog for a third world country that has to endure the US embargos.
Most countries have wanted the US embargos lifted for years, but, hey, 'everytime' there is a vote at the UN, about 90 per cent support the lifting but 3 or 4 countries block it: yep, USA, Israel and a couple of small islands who depend on the US.
Companies from China, India, Canada and Norway entered partnerships to drill for offshore oil in Cuba some years back.
State-owned Cubaniquel and Toronto's Sherritt International Corp operate jointly in Cuba.
Other Canadian companies are more tight-lipped about their operations in Cuba.
Remember in 2005 a little hurricane called Katrina
The Bush administration in the critical hours following Katrina refused or ignored offers by the government of Cuba to immediately dispatch more than 1500 medical doctors with 37 tons of medical supplies to the devastated areas along the Gulf coast.
The Cuban government made its formal offer on September 2, as desperately overworked health-care providers in New Orleans were unable to meet the needs of thousands of survivors due to the lack of medicines, equipment, and personnel. At that time, Senate majority leader and physician Bill Frist, who was visiting that flooded city, stated, “The distribution of medical assistance continues to be a serious problem.” He confirmed reports from Louisiana's Health Department that scores of people were dying as a result.
Didn't read that in the Telegraph or Dail Mail at the time?
As for the oil, Canada has been involved with Cuba for some time (bet that annoys a certain country!)
Trade between Canada and Cuba was almost $1 billion about 7 years ago.
Cuba is at the forefront in healthcare, crise sake their life expectancy is the same almost as the UK!
They (Cuba) teach and send doctors worldwide (but rarely do you read about it).
And their education is top dog for a third world country that has to endure the US embargos.
Most countries have wanted the US embargos lifted for years, but, hey, 'everytime' there is a vote at the UN, about 90 per cent support the lifting but 3 or 4 countries block it: yep, USA, Israel and a couple of small islands who depend on the US.
Companies from China, India, Canada and Norway entered partnerships to drill for offshore oil in Cuba some years back.
State-owned Cubaniquel and Toronto's Sherritt International Corp operate jointly in Cuba.
Other Canadian companies are more tight-lipped about their operations in Cuba.
Remember in 2005 a little hurricane called Katrina
The Bush administration in the critical hours following Katrina refused or ignored offers by the government of Cuba to immediately dispatch more than 1500 medical doctors with 37 tons of medical supplies to the devastated areas along the Gulf coast.
The Cuban government made its formal offer on September 2, as desperately overworked health-care providers in New Orleans were unable to meet the needs of thousands of survivors due to the lack of medicines, equipment, and personnel. At that time, Senate majority leader and physician Bill Frist, who was visiting that flooded city, stated, “The distribution of medical assistance continues to be a serious problem.” He confirmed reports from Louisiana's Health Department that scores of people were dying as a result.
Didn't read that in the Telegraph or Dail Mail at the time?
dandarez said:
The one land that's never in the Westerm news... or rarely, cos 'they' don't want you to know. The day Cuba has a bloody MacDonalds in Havana will be the day that should never come imo.
As for the oil, Canada has been involved with Cuba for some time (bet that annoys a certain country!)
Trade between Canada and Cuba was almost $1 billion about 7 years ago.
Cuba is at the forefront in healthcare, crise sake their life expectancy is the same almost as the UK!
They (Cuba) teach and send doctors worldwide (but rarely do you read about it).
And their education is top dog for a third world country that has to endure the US embargos.
Most countries have wanted the US embargos lifted for years, but, hey, 'everytime' there is a vote at the UN, about 90 per cent support the lifting but 3 or 4 countries block it: yep, USA, Israel and a couple of small islands who depend on the US.
Companies from China, India, Canada and Norway entered partnerships to drill for offshore oil in Cuba some years back.
State-owned Cubaniquel and Toronto's Sherritt International Corp operate jointly in Cuba.
Other Canadian companies are more tight-lipped about their operations in Cuba.
Remember in 2005 a little hurricane called Katrina
The Bush administration in the critical hours following Katrina refused or ignored offers by the government of Cuba to immediately dispatch more than 1500 medical doctors with 37 tons of medical supplies to the devastated areas along the Gulf coast.
The Cuban government made its formal offer on September 2, as desperately overworked health-care providers in New Orleans were unable to meet the needs of thousands of survivors due to the lack of medicines, equipment, and personnel. At that time, Senate majority leader and physician Bill Frist, who was visiting that flooded city, stated, “The distribution of medical assistance continues to be a serious problem.” He confirmed reports from Louisiana's Health Department that scores of people were dying as a result.
Didn't read that in the Telegraph or Dail Mail at the time?
Don't be ignorant Sir. The doctors following Katrina was a propaganda move by Castro, people like you seem to believe it. We have plenty of doctors, his are not certified to practice here. He would not let them come anyway as they would likely not return, even though most of them would have family as hostage back home. As for "world class" medical care, that is another debate. Some of our states trade with Cuba, you don't hear that, do you? As to the other details.....the Cuban ex pats are a very large and politically involved demigraphic and have nothing but loathing for the dictator Castro. As soon as he dies, or Raul softens, the family and money-business ties between the US and Cuba will eclipse others' involvement. Don't be such a Leninist fanboy.As for the oil, Canada has been involved with Cuba for some time (bet that annoys a certain country!)
Trade between Canada and Cuba was almost $1 billion about 7 years ago.
Cuba is at the forefront in healthcare, crise sake their life expectancy is the same almost as the UK!
They (Cuba) teach and send doctors worldwide (but rarely do you read about it).
And their education is top dog for a third world country that has to endure the US embargos.
Most countries have wanted the US embargos lifted for years, but, hey, 'everytime' there is a vote at the UN, about 90 per cent support the lifting but 3 or 4 countries block it: yep, USA, Israel and a couple of small islands who depend on the US.
Companies from China, India, Canada and Norway entered partnerships to drill for offshore oil in Cuba some years back.
State-owned Cubaniquel and Toronto's Sherritt International Corp operate jointly in Cuba.
Other Canadian companies are more tight-lipped about their operations in Cuba.
Remember in 2005 a little hurricane called Katrina
The Bush administration in the critical hours following Katrina refused or ignored offers by the government of Cuba to immediately dispatch more than 1500 medical doctors with 37 tons of medical supplies to the devastated areas along the Gulf coast.
The Cuban government made its formal offer on September 2, as desperately overworked health-care providers in New Orleans were unable to meet the needs of thousands of survivors due to the lack of medicines, equipment, and personnel. At that time, Senate majority leader and physician Bill Frist, who was visiting that flooded city, stated, “The distribution of medical assistance continues to be a serious problem.” He confirmed reports from Louisiana's Health Department that scores of people were dying as a result.
Didn't read that in the Telegraph or Dail Mail at the time?
Edited by Jimbeaux on Monday 21st November 20:33
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