Seriously thinking E39 M5 advice Please
Discussion
Well I am seriously thinking about purchasing an M5 E39 I keep hearing about this Vanos thing and there seems to be trend that indicates across all M BMW's this seems to be a weak point.
Firstly what does it do?
Is there and after market replacement that is more reliable?
What else should I be looking for in the way of what to avoid all help greatly appreciated
Firstly what does it do?
Is there and after market replacement that is more reliable?
What else should I be looking for in the way of what to avoid all help greatly appreciated
The VANOS is an advanced variable valve timing system and gets a far worse reputation than it deserves. Often units that apparently 'fail' are just soleniods or something simple that can be fixed without the entire unit being replaced.
As the M5 is getting on abit now, really top examples are hard to find (if thats what you are after). The worst thing about them, and all BMW's in my view' is the rust. I'm seeing alot of rusting M5's now and if you plan on keeping it a couple of years, then chances are that if you cannot see it now, it will appear by the time you sell it. Areas to look for it are
All the jacking points (look hard)
Boot lock
Corners of the boot
Under the boot catch but above the bumper
Bottom of all the doors
Bottom of the wings
Front of the sills
All the wheel arches (although its rare to see it here)
Around the boot release button and numberplate lights
Discs and tyres are very expensive (£1000 for a set of Michelin's and over £300 for two front discs) so when looking, ensure these are in good condition or factor in the cost of replacements if needed. Try and get as many options as you can as it helps with resale. I managed to get pretty much everything and have retro fitted bluetooth recently which includes voice recognition. Split fold seats are nice too but quite rare.
Mileage is less important than condition so ensure its had proper servicing and look out for signs that its been well cared for. Different (or cheap) tyres around the car is always a good indicator of scrimping.
As the M5 is getting on abit now, really top examples are hard to find (if thats what you are after). The worst thing about them, and all BMW's in my view' is the rust. I'm seeing alot of rusting M5's now and if you plan on keeping it a couple of years, then chances are that if you cannot see it now, it will appear by the time you sell it. Areas to look for it are
All the jacking points (look hard)
Boot lock
Corners of the boot
Under the boot catch but above the bumper
Bottom of all the doors
Bottom of the wings
Front of the sills
All the wheel arches (although its rare to see it here)
Around the boot release button and numberplate lights
Discs and tyres are very expensive (£1000 for a set of Michelin's and over £300 for two front discs) so when looking, ensure these are in good condition or factor in the cost of replacements if needed. Try and get as many options as you can as it helps with resale. I managed to get pretty much everything and have retro fitted bluetooth recently which includes voice recognition. Split fold seats are nice too but quite rare.
Mileage is less important than condition so ensure its had proper servicing and look out for signs that its been well cared for. Different (or cheap) tyres around the car is always a good indicator of scrimping.
Thanks very much for the advice and guidance it is really appreciated and will bare in mind the wise comments made.
Sorry but I am not that knowledgeable when it comes to BMW's as I have always been a Ford Man until now what does the car come with as standard and what are the really nice to have options and the must have options if there are such things?
Sorry but I am not that knowledgeable when it comes to BMW's as I have always been a Ford Man until now what does the car come with as standard and what are the really nice to have options and the must have options if there are such things?
Lots of things are standard
Remote central locking
4 electric windows
8 airbags (10 on facelift
Leather (sports cloth was an option)
Heated seats
Cruise
High OBC (On board computer with lots of options on it)
DSC (Dynamic Stability Control)
PDC (Park Distance Control) on nearly all models and front PDC on Facelift
Popular options would be
Nav (small screen on pre-facelift and widescreen on facelift) which can be upgraded to the 2003 version with a new Nav unit in the boot (about £300) which makes it much faster and better to use.
Telephone can be upgraded to a Bluetooth system which is useful
DSP (Digital Sound Processor) which is an upgraded audio system.
A full options list includes a rear blind and side blinds, towbar, split fold seats, integrated child seats and individual trim plus a host of very rare other bits and pieces.
I've seen cars going for £5500 but if said car would need four tyres, front discs, an Inspection 2 and some plastics replaced you could be looking at over £2k should you not be able to do some of it yourself. Knowing that its easy to spend more on what appears to be a better one but looks can be deceiving so do check closely.
Where abouts in the country are you?
Remote central locking
4 electric windows
8 airbags (10 on facelift
Leather (sports cloth was an option)
Heated seats
Cruise
High OBC (On board computer with lots of options on it)
DSC (Dynamic Stability Control)
PDC (Park Distance Control) on nearly all models and front PDC on Facelift
Popular options would be
Nav (small screen on pre-facelift and widescreen on facelift) which can be upgraded to the 2003 version with a new Nav unit in the boot (about £300) which makes it much faster and better to use.
Telephone can be upgraded to a Bluetooth system which is useful
DSP (Digital Sound Processor) which is an upgraded audio system.
A full options list includes a rear blind and side blinds, towbar, split fold seats, integrated child seats and individual trim plus a host of very rare other bits and pieces.
I've seen cars going for £5500 but if said car would need four tyres, front discs, an Inspection 2 and some plastics replaced you could be looking at over £2k should you not be able to do some of it yourself. Knowing that its easy to spend more on what appears to be a better one but looks can be deceiving so do check closely.
Where abouts in the country are you?
The E39 M5 is a pretty well speced car as standard.
They all have leather, climate control, sunroof, heated electric memory seats, electrically adjustable steering wheel, xenon lights, power fold mirrors and so on.
The must have extra when the car was new was the Comms Pack(sat-nav, traffic master, television, phone and CD changer), however times have moved on, and by today's standards it's a pretty antiquated system. It does make the dash look quite nice, but other than that a £100 Tom-Tom is ten times better.
Other popular extras included upgraded leather interiors with wood trim, upgraded stereo, rear window blinds, dark rear glass, climate comfort windscreen and a glass sunroof instead of the metal one.
None of them, including the Comms Pack IMO is worth paying any extra for.
The most popular colours are Silverstone metallic(replaced by Bluewater on later cars), Carbon Black metallic, Le Mans Blue metallic and Titanium Silver metallic. Less popular but still nice are Anthracite metallic(replaced by Sterling Grey on later cars) and Imola Red. Not popular and seem to devalue the cars are Oxford Green metallic, Royal Red metallic(replaced by Chiaratto Red on later cars) and White.
I wouldn't get too hung up about colours and options when buying one of these, although obviously you need a colour scheme you can live with.
The key is to buy a tidy well looked after car from someone who hasn't been afraid to spend money on it, and can prove it with receipts from either a BMW dealer or a well respected specialist. These cars are definately worth paying a premium for, as a neglected and/or abused car has the potential to swallow thousands of pounds in repairs and maintanace and still never be right.
General servicing isn't that expensive for the type of car it is. Services come round about every 14-15,000 miles, and a BMW dealer will probably take about £170 for an oil service, £400 for an Inspection 1 and about £550 for an Inspection 2, specialists a bit less.
Expensive jobs are front discs and pads at around £500 and clutch and flywheel at about £1,000(clutch and flywheel can last anything from 10k-120k miles depending on how you drive it). MAF sensors gradually deteriorate causing the car to lose power, and there are two of them at about £200 each. As someone has already said tyres are expensive if you go for top brands, but I've always found them to last quite well, as long as you don't drive it like you stole it.
The vanos units can give problems on all cars, not just pre facelift ones as some people would have you believe. The problems are generally caused by the solenoid boards which can be reconditioned for around £300 and take a couple of hours to remove and refit. There are two vanos units, one on each cylinder bank. Cam position sensors are also known to fail giving similar symptoms to a vanos problem, but these are reasonably cheap to replace.
Generally speaking the early cars can have pretty horrendous oil consumption, and they drink Castrol TWS Motorsport at £18 per litre. Cars built after March 2000 have redesigned piston rings which slow the oil consumption quite considerably.
Suspension components aren't particularly expensive, but it does get through bushes and balljoints and everytime the suspension is worked on the car will need to be four wheel alligned.
As already mentioned rust is becoming a problem on these now. Mine is ten years old and I had to have various bits attended to earlier this year, and I've just found another couple of bits that will need taken care of fairly soon.
Finally, if you've got a decent driving record and a bit of no claims bonus, then insurance can be quite reasonable on these, and over the five and a bit years I've had mine I've managed to consistently average beetween 20 and 21mpg while still having fun.
Hope this helps.
They all have leather, climate control, sunroof, heated electric memory seats, electrically adjustable steering wheel, xenon lights, power fold mirrors and so on.
The must have extra when the car was new was the Comms Pack(sat-nav, traffic master, television, phone and CD changer), however times have moved on, and by today's standards it's a pretty antiquated system. It does make the dash look quite nice, but other than that a £100 Tom-Tom is ten times better.
Other popular extras included upgraded leather interiors with wood trim, upgraded stereo, rear window blinds, dark rear glass, climate comfort windscreen and a glass sunroof instead of the metal one.
None of them, including the Comms Pack IMO is worth paying any extra for.
The most popular colours are Silverstone metallic(replaced by Bluewater on later cars), Carbon Black metallic, Le Mans Blue metallic and Titanium Silver metallic. Less popular but still nice are Anthracite metallic(replaced by Sterling Grey on later cars) and Imola Red. Not popular and seem to devalue the cars are Oxford Green metallic, Royal Red metallic(replaced by Chiaratto Red on later cars) and White.
I wouldn't get too hung up about colours and options when buying one of these, although obviously you need a colour scheme you can live with.
The key is to buy a tidy well looked after car from someone who hasn't been afraid to spend money on it, and can prove it with receipts from either a BMW dealer or a well respected specialist. These cars are definately worth paying a premium for, as a neglected and/or abused car has the potential to swallow thousands of pounds in repairs and maintanace and still never be right.
General servicing isn't that expensive for the type of car it is. Services come round about every 14-15,000 miles, and a BMW dealer will probably take about £170 for an oil service, £400 for an Inspection 1 and about £550 for an Inspection 2, specialists a bit less.
Expensive jobs are front discs and pads at around £500 and clutch and flywheel at about £1,000(clutch and flywheel can last anything from 10k-120k miles depending on how you drive it). MAF sensors gradually deteriorate causing the car to lose power, and there are two of them at about £200 each. As someone has already said tyres are expensive if you go for top brands, but I've always found them to last quite well, as long as you don't drive it like you stole it.
The vanos units can give problems on all cars, not just pre facelift ones as some people would have you believe. The problems are generally caused by the solenoid boards which can be reconditioned for around £300 and take a couple of hours to remove and refit. There are two vanos units, one on each cylinder bank. Cam position sensors are also known to fail giving similar symptoms to a vanos problem, but these are reasonably cheap to replace.
Generally speaking the early cars can have pretty horrendous oil consumption, and they drink Castrol TWS Motorsport at £18 per litre. Cars built after March 2000 have redesigned piston rings which slow the oil consumption quite considerably.
Suspension components aren't particularly expensive, but it does get through bushes and balljoints and everytime the suspension is worked on the car will need to be four wheel alligned.
As already mentioned rust is becoming a problem on these now. Mine is ten years old and I had to have various bits attended to earlier this year, and I've just found another couple of bits that will need taken care of fairly soon.
Finally, if you've got a decent driving record and a bit of no claims bonus, then insurance can be quite reasonable on these, and over the five and a bit years I've had mine I've managed to consistently average beetween 20 and 21mpg while still having fun.
Hope this helps.
Dave thank you for taking the time to give such detail I really appreciate it seems there are more pro's than cons in this car in general and it all stems to good maintenance and owners who take the time to look after their cars. Well Lets see how things pan out. Hopefully if all goes to plan and the car is of a good standard then I might be on here shouting about it so thanks to all who have replied.
Hopefully we will speak soon
Hopefully we will speak soon
[quote=# Lord Lucan #]Well I am seriously thinking about purchasing an M5 E39 I keep hearing about this Vanos thing and there seems to be trend that indicates across all M BMW's this seems to be a weak point.
Firstly what does it do?
Is there and after market replacement that is more reliable?
What else should I be looking for in the way of what to avoid all help greatly appreciated
[/quote]
I see from another thread on here you have a Cossie. I've had my E39 M5 for nearly 3yrs now and still not bored of it. I had Cossies for over 10yrs,3 Saffs and 1 3dr that i had for 4yrs which was modded with 330mm brakes,coilovers,T34,500i/c,RL7's etc etc great cars but found i used it very little in the end. The M5 is much more useable and i rarely lift the bonnet. Would never go back to a Cossie now even though i used to go to all the shows and buy FF and Perf Ford,go to rolling road days and spend all my money on tuning bits !
Simon.
Firstly what does it do?
Is there and after market replacement that is more reliable?
What else should I be looking for in the way of what to avoid all help greatly appreciated
[/quote]
I see from another thread on here you have a Cossie. I've had my E39 M5 for nearly 3yrs now and still not bored of it. I had Cossies for over 10yrs,3 Saffs and 1 3dr that i had for 4yrs which was modded with 330mm brakes,coilovers,T34,500i/c,RL7's etc etc great cars but found i used it very little in the end. The M5 is much more useable and i rarely lift the bonnet. Would never go back to a Cossie now even though i used to go to all the shows and buy FF and Perf Ford,go to rolling road days and spend all my money on tuning bits !
Simon.
[quote=# Lord Lucan #]Well I am seriously thinking about purchasing an M5 E39 I keep hearing about this Vanos thing and there seems to be trend that indicates across all M BMW's this seems to be a weak point.
[/quote]
I personally would not believe all you hear about the M5 Vanos.... sure they can be noisy, but I'm betting that many that have been replaced by the dealers over the years have been due to 1) Mis-diagnosis by the dealer and 2) the owner didn't care as they had the BMW warranty and didn't bother getting a 2nd opinion.
Sure you hear horror stories of owners whose Vanos has failed but you seldom hear about owners whose has not???
Also the most common faults can easily be resolved by companies like http://www.mrvanos.com/ and http://drvanos.com/
[/quote]
I personally would not believe all you hear about the M5 Vanos.... sure they can be noisy, but I'm betting that many that have been replaced by the dealers over the years have been due to 1) Mis-diagnosis by the dealer and 2) the owner didn't care as they had the BMW warranty and didn't bother getting a 2nd opinion.
Sure you hear horror stories of owners whose Vanos has failed but you seldom hear about owners whose has not???
Also the most common faults can easily be resolved by companies like http://www.mrvanos.com/ and http://drvanos.com/
Some great advice. Take some advice from someone who thought he was buying a good one (which turned into a money pit)
Buy on condition and get the best one you can afford and even then make sure you have a couple of grand put by just in case.
Its a really good idea to see as many as you can and seeing as the choice is good make sure you get what you want condition wise. The number of cars advertised as mint but have scuffed wheels and rust spots etc really angered me when I was looking.
Great great cars though (but you probably know that already).
Buy on condition and get the best one you can afford and even then make sure you have a couple of grand put by just in case.
Its a really good idea to see as many as you can and seeing as the choice is good make sure you get what you want condition wise. The number of cars advertised as mint but have scuffed wheels and rust spots etc really angered me when I was looking.
Great great cars though (but you probably know that already).
Forget spec, pre or post facelift. I'm even tempted to say forget colour but that is a very personal thing.
For me , buy on 3 things, condition, condition and condition.
A nice s/h helps too. Does'nt have to be Bmw once over 3 yrs old but not just any old monkey either. Someone who knows the cars...
Have bought 2
Done approx 70 k in them over the last 2 and a bit years. Wonderful wonderful machines.
For me , buy on 3 things, condition, condition and condition.
A nice s/h helps too. Does'nt have to be Bmw once over 3 yrs old but not just any old monkey either. Someone who knows the cars...
Have bought 2
Done approx 70 k in them over the last 2 and a bit years. Wonderful wonderful machines.
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