rover v8 wont start (range rover classic)
Discussion
Ok so theres something up with my bobtail rrc, it refuses to start.
It was bought as a non runner project, as no inlet manifolds, so i put some su's on and have driven it round a field since, so I know timing etc is good as sounded sweet.
It had a tendancy to be an arse to start as carbs flooded very quickly, so I fitted new needles in carbs, checked floats werent perished, dahspots, cleaned & oiled etc and fitted fuel pressure reg set to 2.5 psi as running a redtop fuel pump.
Since then it just cranks and cranks and wont go! and after a while it drips fuel out the overflow.
Found a dodgy connection on the started solenoid, so fitted new solenoid today, and new plugs but still no good.
It just floods and doesnt fire at all!
My most likely thought is the ignition amp is nackered (3pin type). It does have a spark but it doesnt look very strong.
Only other thing is I cant see a live feed to the coil?? but it has been running like this so maybe its just different on rrc's to other rv8 powered stuff i've had??
any thoughts much appreciated, cheers ,retro!
It was bought as a non runner project, as no inlet manifolds, so i put some su's on and have driven it round a field since, so I know timing etc is good as sounded sweet.
It had a tendancy to be an arse to start as carbs flooded very quickly, so I fitted new needles in carbs, checked floats werent perished, dahspots, cleaned & oiled etc and fitted fuel pressure reg set to 2.5 psi as running a redtop fuel pump.
Since then it just cranks and cranks and wont go! and after a while it drips fuel out the overflow.
Found a dodgy connection on the started solenoid, so fitted new solenoid today, and new plugs but still no good.
It just floods and doesnt fire at all!
My most likely thought is the ignition amp is nackered (3pin type). It does have a spark but it doesnt look very strong.
Only other thing is I cant see a live feed to the coil?? but it has been running like this so maybe its just different on rrc's to other rv8 powered stuff i've had??
any thoughts much appreciated, cheers ,retro!
Just a thought, I had similar, replaced the ignition amp, it did work, but soon the problem returned.
Do you have a dodgy connection on an immobiliser?
That's what mine turned out to be. I had an old Sanji(sp?)one with the small comb-like copper connectors on the bit you remove to disable it.
Shoved a paperclip in, solved the problem.
Do you have a dodgy connection on an immobiliser?
That's what mine turned out to be. I had an old Sanji(sp?)one with the small comb-like copper connectors on the bit you remove to disable it.
Shoved a paperclip in, solved the problem.
stevieturbo said:
So fuel runs out the overflow, and you think it's a spark issue ???
That's like saying 1+1 = 8
Recheck your fuel system properly.
it doesnt run out immediatey, just after about 5 mins of cranking it drips abit. I guessed its doing this as the pump is pumping the fuel but there is nowhere else for it to go.That's like saying 1+1 = 8
Recheck your fuel system properly.
Surely if there was fuel and a spark it would at least fire??
I have checked the fuel system thoughroughly, and checked for a spark. It has a spark but looks weak. I came to the weak spark conclusion due to the plugs getting wet!?
retroracing said:
it doesnt run out immediatey, just after about 5 mins of cranking it drips abit. I guessed its doing this as the pump is pumping the fuel but there is nowhere else for it to go.
Surely if there was fuel and a spark it would at least fire??
I have checked the fuel system thoughroughly, and checked for a spark. It has a spark but looks weak. I came to the weak spark conclusion due to the plugs getting wet!?
Fuel should never be able to run out of the overflow in the carbs unless the needle valve isnt seating.Surely if there was fuel and a spark it would at least fire??
I have checked the fuel system thoughroughly, and checked for a spark. It has a spark but looks weak. I came to the weak spark conclusion due to the plugs getting wet!?
If the plugs are soaked, bin them. When wet it will certainly appear as if there is a weak spark, but that doesnt mean there isnt sufficient electrical energy available. It's just that you drowned it. IMO it's a waste of time trying to dry plugs in that state. Sometimes they work after, often they dont.
If there is a sensible amount on fuel, a good spark at the right time, then yes it should make some attempt. Not on drowned plugs though.
right so spent all day on it today and still no joy,
i concluded the su's are nackered, needles not seating properly and petrol just pouring out the overflows with the fuel pump on.
I had some solex's hanging around that I have had on an engine recently and know are good,so stuck them on just to eliminate the carb issue and now no overflowing petrol,
but still no joy!
Massive spark from the coil when earther so thats good, checked all leads, wires, replaced dizzy cap, new plugs but still nothing.
Checked the timing and it apperared to be out. I dont understand this as i had it running on the su's last week. Adjsusted timing but still no good?
If the ignition amp is shot can u still get a spark at the plugs???
Took the dizzy out this eve and fitted a new ignition amp. The back of the heat shield was coated in mud & crap so doubt that helped.
Removed the plastic lid in the dizz to check the wires in there hadnt perished/snapped with the movemet of the vac advance but all good.
I'll refit the dizz if i get time tomorrow, and and double check the firing order & timing again,
but after that I'm all outa ideas!!!
i concluded the su's are nackered, needles not seating properly and petrol just pouring out the overflows with the fuel pump on.
I had some solex's hanging around that I have had on an engine recently and know are good,so stuck them on just to eliminate the carb issue and now no overflowing petrol,
but still no joy!
Massive spark from the coil when earther so thats good, checked all leads, wires, replaced dizzy cap, new plugs but still nothing.
Checked the timing and it apperared to be out. I dont understand this as i had it running on the su's last week. Adjsusted timing but still no good?
If the ignition amp is shot can u still get a spark at the plugs???
Took the dizzy out this eve and fitted a new ignition amp. The back of the heat shield was coated in mud & crap so doubt that helped.
Removed the plastic lid in the dizz to check the wires in there hadnt perished/snapped with the movemet of the vac advance but all good.
I'll refit the dizz if i get time tomorrow, and and double check the firing order & timing again,
but after that I'm all outa ideas!!!
If the needle valves are not seating, that just means the needle valves need attention. You do not need to replace the carbs.
And obviously if you have spark, the ignition amp is fine.
Have you replaced the plugs ?
And yes it would make sense to ensure you have firing order correct. But when you had only been working at the carbs, how would this have changed from when it was working ?
And obviously if you have spark, the ignition amp is fine.
Have you replaced the plugs ?
And yes it would make sense to ensure you have firing order correct. But when you had only been working at the carbs, how would this have changed from when it was working ?
retroracing said:
Massive spark from the coil when earthed so thats good, checked all leads, wires, replaced dizzy cap, new plugs but still nothing.
Checked the timing and it appeared to be out. I dont understand this as i had it running on the su's last week. Adjusted timing but still no good?
If the ignition amp is shot can u still get a spark at the plugs???
Even tho' the coil sparks when earthed, I'm not clear if you get a spark at the plugs when its all back together again?Checked the timing and it appeared to be out. I dont understand this as i had it running on the su's last week. Adjusted timing but still no good?
If the ignition amp is shot can u still get a spark at the plugs???
If not, then - no - you wont get a spark with a duff amplifier.
So assuming you don't have sparks then you could do worse that test everything using simple (basic) techniques. Read the two PDF's available for download from here:
http://www.vintagemodelairplane.com/pages/Download...
http://www.vintagemodelairplane.com/pages/Download...
and go thro' your whole ignition system.
On the other hand if you do have sparks but the engine will not fire, then perhaps the distributor has been re-fitted incorrectly and/or the firing order is upset.
Moving on, if the sparks are good and the timing/firing order is also correct then you are looking at fueling problems again, and from you previous experience flooding is the main enemy when the engine will nor fire so check the condition of the spark plugs for signs and/or smell of excess fuel in the combustion chambers.
Another consideration is that your prior flooding was so bad you have contaminated the sump oil with leaking fuel and the mixture control by your replacement carbs is being swamped by fuel in the sump.
hi guys, i just replaced the carbs for the mean time, so i could eliminate the flooding prob as the car is outside so was racing against the dark. I will repair & refit the su's at a later date!!
I hadnt done anything to the dizz so dont know how the timing could have gone out. It was always a pain to start though before when it was running so perhaps it was retareded/advanced abit to much, but fine once started & ran great.
Yes there is a spark at the plugs, but there was also fuel, thats why I thought perhaps the timing or firing order was out to blame?? as no bang!
I had a spare ign amp lying about so I changed that tonight as a matter of course but havnt had a chance to test yet.
U say fuel in the sump? will that in affect cause flooding as the engine turns over?? I guess It'll need to be drained then??
thanks again retro
I hadnt done anything to the dizz so dont know how the timing could have gone out. It was always a pain to start though before when it was running so perhaps it was retareded/advanced abit to much, but fine once started & ran great.
Yes there is a spark at the plugs, but there was also fuel, thats why I thought perhaps the timing or firing order was out to blame?? as no bang!
I had a spare ign amp lying about so I changed that tonight as a matter of course but havnt had a chance to test yet.
U say fuel in the sump? will that in affect cause flooding as the engine turns over?? I guess It'll need to be drained then??
thanks again retro
retroracing said:
hi guys, i just replaced the carbs for the mean time, so i could eliminate the flooding prob as the car is outside so was racing against the dark. I will repair & refit the su's at a later date!!
I hadnt done anything to the dizz so dont know how the timing could have gone out. It was always a pain to start though before when it was running so perhaps it was retareded/advanced abit to much, but fine once started & ran great.
Yes there is a spark at the plugs, but there was also fuel, thats why I thought perhaps the timing or firing order was out to blame?? as no bang!
I had a spare ign amp lying about so I changed that tonight as a matter of course but havnt had a chance to test yet.
U say fuel in the sump? will that in affect cause flooding as the engine turns over?? I guess It'll need to be drained then??
thanks again retro
SO there is a good strong spark at the plugs, and you have replaced all the soaked plugs with new ?I hadnt done anything to the dizz so dont know how the timing could have gone out. It was always a pain to start though before when it was running so perhaps it was retareded/advanced abit to much, but fine once started & ran great.
Yes there is a spark at the plugs, but there was also fuel, thats why I thought perhaps the timing or firing order was out to blame?? as no bang!
I had a spare ign amp lying about so I changed that tonight as a matter of course but havnt had a chance to test yet.
U say fuel in the sump? will that in affect cause flooding as the engine turns over?? I guess It'll need to be drained then??
thanks again retro
if there is fuel in the sump, you'll end up with no oil pressure.
Check that if you turn the rotor arm by hand it will flick smartly back to its original position. If it doesn't it often means you have disengaged the auto advance/retard mech in the bottom of the dizzy when pulling the rotor arm off. Very common issue.
Check the timing again, because the shaft rotates as you remove/install its VERY easy to get the dizzy one or more teeth out when re-installing - I speak from experience! DON'T just go on the timing pointer on the crank pulley, do it properly with the rocker cover off & No1 plug out so you can be sure.
Are the rotor arm & dizzy cap genuine items - and I DO mean from a franchised LR dealer - as pattern parts are a major source of problems.
Check the timing again, because the shaft rotates as you remove/install its VERY easy to get the dizzy one or more teeth out when re-installing - I speak from experience! DON'T just go on the timing pointer on the crank pulley, do it properly with the rocker cover off & No1 plug out so you can be sure.
Are the rotor arm & dizzy cap genuine items - and I DO mean from a franchised LR dealer - as pattern parts are a major source of problems.
Edited by paintman on Monday 21st November 08:59
ok so checked the dizzy over last night and all fine,
spun up the oil drive with a mains drill and it got pressure ok, and no signs of oil contamination on the dipstick! phew
Set to tdc, on the crank (and checked physically) refitted dizzy, checked firing order, got a good spark and now its firing.
I want to refit the SU's now though as was obv the main prob.
Stipped them right down, bowls clean, floats not perished, check float heights (ok), and the little valve that lets fuel in and out moving freely and no grit ect (tested it worked with a bit of fuel)
next question though, the little grey bit that sits around the needle, should that be flush with the plunger or stick out a bit.
It was flush before, perhaps my prob?? Logically I would think it should stick out a bit so it seats against the top of the main jet when the plunger is down 'on the deck'. Heres a pic of the needle with the little grey bit i mean, thanks guys, i'm am learning lol.
spun up the oil drive with a mains drill and it got pressure ok, and no signs of oil contamination on the dipstick! phew
Set to tdc, on the crank (and checked physically) refitted dizzy, checked firing order, got a good spark and now its firing.
I want to refit the SU's now though as was obv the main prob.
Stipped them right down, bowls clean, floats not perished, check float heights (ok), and the little valve that lets fuel in and out moving freely and no grit ect (tested it worked with a bit of fuel)
next question though, the little grey bit that sits around the needle, should that be flush with the plunger or stick out a bit.
It was flush before, perhaps my prob?? Logically I would think it should stick out a bit so it seats against the top of the main jet when the plunger is down 'on the deck'. Heres a pic of the needle with the little grey bit i mean, thanks guys, i'm am learning lol.
I would normally install it flush. But worst case scenario like in the picture, the needle will simply be too far down the jet and wont allow enough fuel in.
But as long as both carbs are exactly the same, and jet height is exactly the same, it isnt a major issue.
It will have nothing whatsoever to do with the needle valve not sealing, which has been your problem all along.
But as long as both carbs are exactly the same, and jet height is exactly the same, it isnt a major issue.
It will have nothing whatsoever to do with the needle valve not sealing, which has been your problem all along.
stevieturbo said:
I would normally install it flush. But worst case scenario like in the picture, the needle will simply be too far down the jet and wont allow enough fuel in.
But as long as both carbs are exactly the same, and jet height is exactly the same, it isnt a major issue.
It will have nothing whatsoever to do with the needle valve not sealing, which has been your problem all along.
But as long as both carbs are exactly the same, and jet height is exactly the same, it isnt a major issue.
It will have nothing whatsoever to do with the needle valve not sealing, which has been your problem all along.
Thanks for the quick reply stevie, I will try it like that then. I have set both jets the same, I counted 17 half turns of adjsutment so have set them, at 8 1/2 each to start.
Could there be anything else that is causing the flooding, do the jets wear? or may it have just been the floats where adjusted wrong. They seemed ok but I adjusted them a bit to make double sure they shut off when the bowls are full, thanks
As already explained. Either the needle valves seal, or they dont. It's a very easy test. Blow into the fuel inlet ( via a clean bit of pipe ). If they dont seal, either clean or replace them.
If they do seal, they are fine.
Float height can play a part, but SU's are very forgiving.
The only other thing, is too much fuel pressure. But didnt you say this was ok ?
If they do seal, they are fine.
Float height can play a part, but SU's are very forgiving.
The only other thing, is too much fuel pressure. But didnt you say this was ok ?
stevieturbo said:
As already explained. Either the needle valves seal, or they dont. It's a very easy test. Blow into the fuel inlet ( via a clean bit of pipe ). If they dont seal, either clean or replace them.
If they do seal, they are fine.
Float height can play a part, but SU's are very forgiving.
The only other thing, is too much fuel pressure. But didnt you say this was ok ?
ok stevieturbo, i will do the test as suggested. Yes the fuel pressure is fine as fitted a regulator asyou guys suggested, backed it right of to 2.5-3psi, cheers again retroIf they do seal, they are fine.
Float height can play a part, but SU's are very forgiving.
The only other thing, is too much fuel pressure. But didnt you say this was ok ?
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