'Road Tax' debate rumbles on...
'Road Tax' debate rumbles on...
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Discussion

2volvos

Original Poster:

660 posts

230 months

Tuesday 22nd November 2011
quotequote all
http://www.confused.com/press/releases/cyclo-paths...


So called 'research' from appropriately named Confused.com looks to be reinforcing the notion that VED is a 'Road Tax' and not an emmissions based vehicle duty.

According to their poll of drivers who have apparently been irritated by a cyclist at some point, 25% of them want cyclists to pay some form of 'Road Tax'. I think this is very sloppy and cynical from an organisation that should know the taxation system better. It just perpetuates the myth of road tax for lazy and arrogant motorists to use against cyclist who have just as much a right to be on the road as them.

And of course, if bikes were subject to the same VED system as cars, It'd be free anyway as bikes are zero emmissions vehicles...which would make them even angrier...

Watchman

6,391 posts

274 months

Tuesday 22nd November 2011
quotequote all
It'll never happen. You'd need to register bikes first, and then you've the whole issue of registering bikes for children too.

It could be nipped in the bud along with hundreds of poor driving habits if the govt would sponsor some public information "adverts" like they used to.

2volvos

Original Poster:

660 posts

230 months

Tuesday 22nd November 2011
quotequote all
You're right - it's a complete non-starter. But will that stop certain types of thickheaded and uninformed motorists using it as a stick to bash cyclists? The fact that this study reinforces that somewhere, somehow it could be an option is, in my opinion, inflammatory.

Laurel Green

31,116 posts

261 months

Tuesday 22nd November 2011
quotequote all
The first word after the www. in the above link, is appropriate for the motorists thinking so.

matt-ITR

892 posts

218 months

Tuesday 22nd November 2011
quotequote all
It really frustrates me and this always comes up, especially on TV.
Whenever I have the chance to correct them and mention VED and c02 and how bikes would be free anyway that soon shuts them up.

anonymous-user

83 months

Tuesday 22nd November 2011
quotequote all
I would bet that 99% of cyclists have a car too so they argument falls flat on its arse at the first sight of logic or scrutiny. they just cant grasp the fact that cycling to work is not a requirement but a choice...

paulrockliffe

16,564 posts

256 months

Tuesday 22nd November 2011
quotequote all
And if more people made the same choice they wouldn't be stuck in traffic. Conversely, if all the cyclists were in their cars they'd be queuing for a lot longer.

2volvos

Original Poster:

660 posts

230 months

Tuesday 22nd November 2011
quotequote all
paulrockliffe said:
And if more people made the same choice they wouldn't be stuck in traffic. Conversely, if all the cyclists were in their cars they'd be queuing for a lot longer.
I had the great misfortune in doing Transport module while at Uni (I thought it was going to be about speedboats and jets - it wasn't - bus routes and timetables).

Anyway what you have just described was talked about in one lecture and given the great title of The Tyranny of Small Decisions. Its a very useful theory that uses the following model.

100 people take 1 hour to get to work by bus. Suddenly one of them discovers he can get to work by car in 45 minutes, but now the bus takes 1 hour and 1 minute. More folk decide to go by car driving up the bus journey time until everyone goes by car but it now takes 90 minutes.

You can apply it to loads of situations including most congestion. Everyone is making seperate decisions to advance their own individual progress, but in so doing the whole community suffers. So at roadworks where two lanes merge into one, if both lanes were used fully and there was a strict alternating of vehicles at the point of the merging traffic would flow much better than the angry free for all you usually see.


Watchman

6,391 posts

274 months

Tuesday 22nd November 2011
quotequote all
^^^ This is exactly the sort of info that should be incorporated into a govt sponsored "infomercial" (I'm not sure if I just made that up or not).

If presented in the adverts during X-Factor, it would reach a lot of the population. The "green cross code", "Clunk Click", and "Don't dazzle, dip your headlights" was clearly understood by a large proportion of the poulation.

tr7v8

7,620 posts

257 months

Tuesday 22nd November 2011
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Confused.com sponsor Brake so that rules them out of any intelligent discussion, end of.

Saddle bum

4,211 posts

248 months

Wednesday 23rd November 2011
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OP says it all.

Gooby

9,269 posts

263 months

Wednesday 23rd November 2011
quotequote all
It always seems odd to me that a vast majority of the population is increasingly content to stay ignorant. They do not wish to get the details or facts, they just want to spout off and get irritated, far easier than dealing with the facts.

Watchman

6,391 posts

274 months

Wednesday 23rd November 2011
quotequote all
Gooby said:
It always seems odd to me that a vast majority of the population is increasingly content to stay ignorant. They do not wish to get the details or facts, they just want to spout off and get irritated, far easier than dealing with the facts.
hehe Not at all like PH.

2volvos

Original Poster:

660 posts

230 months

Wednesday 23rd November 2011
quotequote all
Watchman said:
hehe Not at all like PH.
Being ignorant is the easy option as it doesn't require the effort of thought. Could get quite philosophical for a Wednesday morning...

A main culprit is the lazy use of language, so in this instance the use of the term 'road tax' is an easy label that on the surface we think we understand, but in fact refers to something totally different.

Gooby

9,269 posts

263 months

Wednesday 23rd November 2011
quotequote all
2volvos said:
Being ignorant is the easy option as it doesn't require the effort of thought. Could get quite philosophical for a Wednesday morning...

A main culprit is the lazy use of language, so in this instance the use of the term 'road tax' is an easy label that on the surface we think we understand, but in fact refers to something totally different.
Even the government use the term "road tax"!

Ignorance s perpetuated by the "role models" people look up too. The air head faux celebrities like Jordan, the famous for being famous not for any skill or talent make people aspire to be talentless lay abouts.

Watchman

6,391 posts

274 months

Wednesday 23rd November 2011
quotequote all
The DVLA calls is "Vehicle Tax" now which is, I suppose, a more accurate description of it as the funds are not ring-fenced for the maintenance of roads. However, nothing good is served by letting the unwashed know this fact (from the govt's perspective).

Saddle bum

4,211 posts

248 months

Wednesday 23rd November 2011
quotequote all
Embedded beliefs that are indeed predudice only go to comfort the believer. There has been a persitant refusal to address the car-centric religion that pervades society. Public Service items or a re-education programme are not options. Governments do not court popularity by upsetting those groups that provide large amounts of tax revenue.

Taxing cyclists is a war cry from those who are trying to create an underclass of road users who are fair game and whose casualty rates are of no consequence.

IroningMan

10,598 posts

275 months

Wednesday 23rd November 2011
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As good a reason as any not buy your insurance from confused.com.

2volvos

Original Poster:

660 posts

230 months

Wednesday 23rd November 2011
quotequote all
There's more wisdom in this little thread of ours, tucked away in the PH backwater that is Pedal Powered, than in the whole News, Economics and Politics section put together.
Wonder what the responses would have been like if I'd posted there?

WeirdNeville

6,049 posts

244 months

Wednesday 23rd November 2011
quotequote all
So, when are we going to have to be insured too?

It's motorists (and I mean the kind who can see no other way of getting over there) cutting off their nose to spite their face - a continuation of the race to the bottom.