Discussion
For the last couple of years we've had lots of threads about the pros and cons of diesel v petrol on economy grounds but there discussion about lpg.
It seems like all the cabs in Brum run on LPG and I assume a professional driver who really cares about the costs he's incurring will have carefully worked out what's the cheapest fuel.
So what are the pros and cons of LPG?
It seems like all the cabs in Brum run on LPG and I assume a professional driver who really cares about the costs he's incurring will have carefully worked out what's the cheapest fuel.
So what are the pros and cons of LPG?
scrwright said:
pro: cheaper than petrol, cleaner burning
con: need to find space for the tank, not as many fuel stations
con: slight loss in power. The amount can vary depending on the quality of the install. I lost around 5% which needs to be considered in the cost calculation.con: need to find space for the tank, not as many fuel stations
Also MPG drops slightly as a result of the above.
Not noticable in the car but worth considering if your not planning on keeping the car long term.
Chris71 said:
How does LPG figure with the current fuel duty/oil prices? Weren't there murmurings that it now makes a lot less sense than it used to?
Well it all depends on your own personal mathematics and circumstances. The Duty on LPG is only 31p a litre and LPG is costing about 76p a litre at the pumps, compared to the 132.9 for petrol that ive seen today. So take a typical petrol car doing 35mpg over 10,000 miles would cost £1,726. On LPG the mpg would probably drop to around 30mpg and cost £1,150 over 10,000 miles. Of course you'd have to buy some petrol also as the engine starts up on petrol but thats over £550 saved by having LPG. Considering a proper professional install with everything thrown in on a typical four cylinder car would cost at least £1,000 to do it'd only be financially worthwhile if you kept the car long term.Where it does make sense however is on older, large petrol cars or 4x4s. Grand Cherokee's, Range Rover's and the like which post 20mpg at best, if you want to run one of those regularly then LPG makes it halfway viable, its also the only way you'd realistically sell it for a worthwhile price.
I've been thinking about this also. One thing about the conversion cost is you'd get a fair chunk of that cost back when you sell the car on as LPG converted cars tend to have a bit of a premium attached to them. They also seem to sell quickliy, so it should be fairly easy to move on, providing the cost of LPG doesn't increase out of line with petrol cost (it has doubled or so in the past 5yrs IIRC, but all fuel duty will rise, not just LPG).
I'm thinking a £5/6k 735i with a £1.5k(ish) conversion, working out at 30mpg, 15k miles/yr should save roughly £1k/yr with a slight drop in mpg and using petrol for the first few miles. So, conversion paid for after 18months/2yrs max and the car should be worth around £500 more than a similar spec non-LPG model after a few years.
This is my man maths BTW, I wouldn't take any notice of it if you're actually going to spend money!!!
I'm thinking a £5/6k 735i with a £1.5k(ish) conversion, working out at 30mpg, 15k miles/yr should save roughly £1k/yr with a slight drop in mpg and using petrol for the first few miles. So, conversion paid for after 18months/2yrs max and the car should be worth around £500 more than a similar spec non-LPG model after a few years.
This is my man maths BTW, I wouldn't take any notice of it if you're actually going to spend money!!!
My other half is currently running a LPG converted V6 Omega. It's turned me into a total convert. The difference in power is barely noticeable - it's basically identical to driving it on petrol at ~60% of the cost. Unlike petrol/diesel it's often cheaper to fill up at motorway services too!
The only pain is filling up as the flow rate from the pumps is quite low. The fill adaptor on it's in quite an awkward place too; under the rear bumper. If I was having one converted I'd have it put in next to the petrol flap.
The only pain is filling up as the flow rate from the pumps is quite low. The fill adaptor on it's in quite an awkward place too; under the rear bumper. If I was having one converted I'd have it put in next to the petrol flap.
I used to travel from Sale in Greater Manchester to Leeds on a daily basis (~100 miles a day) in a 1999 BMW 520i SE. I bought the car as a standard petrol, and after a couple of months, decided to LPG it. Rather than just pay £1500-2000 (the price of a good conversion for a 6 cylinder car), we (my Dad and I) decided it would be cheaper to DIY the conversion.
I was looking at LPG BMWs on eBay for a while, when I saw a late '98 poverty spec 520i with LPG, so we went and had a look at it, ended up buying it, and then swapping all the parts over! Whole thing cost me about £200 to convert (new pipework, new filler, having it certified, etc), and I then flogged the donor car for the same price I bought it for! Why not just run the LPG'd car rather than convert the parts? Well, the donor was poverty spec like I said, and mine had quite a few nice extras, like heated sports seats, sports suspension, alloys, interior trim, etc.
Not bad.. probably saved me about £150 a month in petrol costs. Car ran exactly the same on LPG as it did on Petrol with no real noticeable loss in power. Worked it out at the time to be the cost equivelant of getting around 55MPG. Probably only did about 10k miles before getting a job closer to home however, where it got significantly less used, and eventually sold and upgraded for a 535i.
To add to that, my Dad has had an LPG'd Toyota LandCruiser for around 8 years, which he had no problems with apart from a sticking injector at one point, and did around 70,000 miles. He sold that a couple of years ago, and upgraded it to a newer LandCruiser V8. First thing he did was convert it to LPG. Bought the kit and fitted it himself also, and think it set him back about £900.
Sorry for the essay, but to summarise.. LPG gets a big thumbs up from me. If I had to go back to doing high mileage again, I'd get another LPG car instantly.
I was looking at LPG BMWs on eBay for a while, when I saw a late '98 poverty spec 520i with LPG, so we went and had a look at it, ended up buying it, and then swapping all the parts over! Whole thing cost me about £200 to convert (new pipework, new filler, having it certified, etc), and I then flogged the donor car for the same price I bought it for! Why not just run the LPG'd car rather than convert the parts? Well, the donor was poverty spec like I said, and mine had quite a few nice extras, like heated sports seats, sports suspension, alloys, interior trim, etc.
Not bad.. probably saved me about £150 a month in petrol costs. Car ran exactly the same on LPG as it did on Petrol with no real noticeable loss in power. Worked it out at the time to be the cost equivelant of getting around 55MPG. Probably only did about 10k miles before getting a job closer to home however, where it got significantly less used, and eventually sold and upgraded for a 535i.
To add to that, my Dad has had an LPG'd Toyota LandCruiser for around 8 years, which he had no problems with apart from a sticking injector at one point, and did around 70,000 miles. He sold that a couple of years ago, and upgraded it to a newer LandCruiser V8. First thing he did was convert it to LPG. Bought the kit and fitted it himself also, and think it set him back about £900.
Sorry for the essay, but to summarise.. LPG gets a big thumbs up from me. If I had to go back to doing high mileage again, I'd get another LPG car instantly.
Roo said:
It's only marginal though.
you're joking right?you must have really slow petrol pumps or really fast LPG pump or a tank the size of a walnut.
It takes lots longer. than petrol.
Pro's and Cons in no particular order
Less outlets - just plan ahead - websites, books and Satnav downloads are available. If you have a local outlet or one on a regular journey - that works best. My town has 5 outlets within a few miles but some towns have none.
If you can find a Calor (fuel dealer) they often sell LPG cheap. My coal/fuel merchant does LPG usually about 5p cheaper than garages. I currently pay 65p P.S Birmingham for some reason seems to be chaep for LPG
It is another fuel system so factor in a service cost as well most LPG issues are down to people fitting and forgetting.
Loss of boot space depends on the car - my 70ltr tank is in the spare wheel well - no loss of boot space except for the can of tyre weld.
You do lose power - how big a deal this is depends on the car, not really noticable in mine.
Payback time largely depends on the MPG of your car - big car averaging 20mpg will pay back twice as fast (or, in half as many miles) as one doing 40mpg.
cost is 1100ish for 4cyl upto about 1700ish for 8cyl.
Conversion will normally take several days.
AVOID THE GUYS WHO PROMISE TO DO A CONVERSION IN A DAY
LPG generally works best in biggish cars with people doing above average miles.
Cars on LPG run hotter, so if you have any issues with cooling LPG can tip it over the edge.
Certain cars with soft vavle seats will need a little extra bit in the fitting - again go to a reputable installer.
Edited by sparkyhx on Wednesday 23 November 17:17
Edited by sparkyhx on Wednesday 23 November 17:27
Mate LPG'd his S4 (V8 one) a few years ago when he was doing London to Yorkshire quite regularly.
He didn't notice any loss in performance but he was filling the tank up prety regularly.
I think he told me a 60l tank won't actually hold 60l because of expansion?
Not sure I remember correctly.
It also sounded just as nice as when it ran on petrol.
He didn't notice any loss in performance but he was filling the tank up prety regularly.
I think he told me a 60l tank won't actually hold 60l because of expansion?
Not sure I remember correctly.
It also sounded just as nice as when it ran on petrol.
martin84 said:
The Duty on LPG is only 31p a litre and LPG is costing about 76p a litre at the pumps,
bloody hell I'ts cheaper than that on motorways round here.GreatGranny said:
I think he told me a 60l tank won't actually hold 60l because of expansion?
Yep take off 10% of tank for max fill - My 70ltr one holds just over 60 ltrs which is just over 320 miles of driving (max).Edited by sparkyhx on Wednesday 23 November 17:31
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