Lloyds shares this year wtf

[Welshbeef]

How on earth are these now pretty much in the same ball park as RBS?
Gone down from c70p in Jan to c22p now.

[johnfm]

I am sure you know this, but 'the market' thinks they're not worth much.

Still, if you don't sell you won't crystallise your loss...

[sussexjob]

Just going through a difficult time, purchased some today if the business was broken up they are worth triple, have to be a buy and hold.

[johnfm]

sussexjob said:

Just going through a difficult time, purchased some today if the business was broken up they are worth triple, have to be a buy and hold.

That's what a bunch of investors thought at 50p...

[Welshbeef]

johnfm said:

I am sure you know this, but 'the market' thinks they're not worth much.

Still, if you don't sell you won't crystallise your loss...

But is it worth roughly the same as RBS? Surely not

[jonah35]

Welshbeef said:

But is it worth roughly the same as RBS? Surely not

the price of the shares doesn't mean its worth the same as another company with a similar share price, depends on how many shares in issue

[jonah35]

sussexjob said:

Just going through a difficult time, purchased some today if the business was broken up they are worth triple, have to be a buy and hold.

thats what some people thought about northern rock when they got back nothing
thats what some people thought about bradford and bingley when they got back nothing
the ceo is off with stress - perhaps he knows something we don't?
if full nationalisation occurs (govt already owns 40 odd %) then you'd lose every penny wouldn't you?

hasn't dexia been bailed out/nationalised?

do you not just think they are a pure gamble and not an investment?

[johnfm]

jonah35 said:

Welshbeef said:

But is it worth roughly the same as RBS? Surely not

the price of the shares doesn't mean its worth the same as another company with a similar share price, depends on how many shares in issue

Apart from 'market cap' (price x no of shares in issue), what a company is 'worth' is complex. I don't pretend to fully understand it, but at times some companies have a market value less than the value of their underlying assets.

This is the time for some investors to make a killing - but I personally am steering clear of bank shares and sticking with oil producers.

[ZOLLAR]

I've lost £29,000 on them .....


















£29,000 fantasy money on plus 500 demo app

[limpsfield]

It's wrong to think that because their share price is the same as for example RBS, then they are worth the same as RBS.

Lloyds market cap is around £15bn, RBS is around £10bn.

Banks have been in decline for over a year now but the recent Lloyds news, the new boss taking time off sick and speculation he won't be coming back; his stand in leaving in Feb 2012, and one of his senior recruits now deciding not to join (from RBS) is doing sentiment no favours.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/ba...

[ringram]

Would you want the CEO back!?

If he cant handle the work, then whats the point!? How do you know he wont choke again?

Also sure it may be 1/3 of "book", but what ste is on the book? Nice tower hamlets 2 bed flats, some excellent Irish property investments etc. Mark to market or marked at Par!?

Seems the FT commentators recon they are Ill.

Still any move in general sentiment and they should show a good gain. Timing is the hardest thing to get right. Set your stop tight They arnt going away any time soon though. But I guess worse case shareholders might get wiped out byt he Govt aka NRK. (I got bit on that one!)

I have a couple of fill orders waiting to get triggered, but not for LLOY.

[jonah35]

ringram said:

Would you want the CEO back!?

If he cant handle the work, then whats the point!? How do you know he wont choke again?

Also sure it may be 1/3 of "book", but what ste is on the book? Nice tower hamlets 2 bed flats, some excellent Irish property investments etc. Mark to market or marked at Par!?

Seems the FT commentators recon they are Ill.

Still any move in general sentiment and they should show a good gain. Timing is the hardest thing to get right. Set your stop tight They arnt going away any time soon though. But I guess worse case shareholders might get wiped out byt he Govt aka NRK. (I got bit on that one!)

I have a couple of fill orders waiting to get triggered, but not for LLOY.

good explanation, the 'book' isn't valued according to its worth is the essential point as banks haven't marked their assets according to their true worth is essentially the point which is what ringram said here but perhaps in a bit of a jargony way

i know lots of people that got wiped out re NRK same as you ringram, will the shareholders get anything now its been sold? I doubt it

[Welshbeef]

So projections are no dividends until at least after 2014.
The Verde report forcing the disposal of branches so far costing £90m
The PPI provision which is an odd one as we practically own the bank so really that is an own goal
Worrying also is the higher borrowing costs they are seeing die to their credit rating and the overall markets
Then the stress fatigue of CEO and uncertainty over key decision makers within the business

Kind of makes sense.

My point on similar share price (yes I'm fully aware of Market cap) was based upon the fact their Market cap is in the same ball park now yet a year or so ago rather than being same ball park Lloyds was well over double the value.

So does that mean the market believes the medium term prospects for RBS is stronger than that of Lloyds?? If so why ?
My understanding is RBS has a lot of high risk debt whereas HBOS had the high risk and Lloyds had much much lower debt risk resulting in a weighted average debt risk being vastly lower for the new combined Lloyds group.

So what has changed? Was the original understanding of the RBS debt risk over egg'd or was HBOS much worse and Lloyds much worse?? This is where I'm struggling.

Of course the markets may just be hammering a business which is sound very profitable but due to uncertainty that causes concerns in the Market.
Also is it a case that Lloyds has greater euro debts than RBS? iIRC RBS put in huge provisions for a Greek debt haircut much earlier this year while no other big bank did - possibly as their exposure is too great.


Thoughts.

[ringram]

PPI Phase 1.

Now its enhanced accounts being misold to people who can never claim on the insurance or use the features because they dont qualify. Read something about this the other day, seems there could be more claims arising from these.

My gut feel is that LLOY will pick up, but not till they have a sound CEO sorted and the rest of the mess aka Euro situation starts stabilising. Catch the timing right and you could triple your money.. (I said to myself 3 years ago when buying NRK..)