Mazda rotary engine mated to FWD gear box

[ceebmoj]

Does any body know of Mazda wankel engine mated to FWD gear box? have been googleing about and cant find any information. It would seam to be a potentualy light and compact arangment for a mid engin car

Edited by ceebmoj on Saturday 26th November 13:22

[Paul Drawmer]

Why transverse mounting?

With such a short engine as a wankel, you could use a proper rear transaxle set up, and keep the CofG down as well.

[Sam_68]

^^^ This.

I'm pretty sure I've seen wankels mated to both Beetle and AlfaSud/Alfa 33 transaxles in Lotus 23 replicas, but whatever you do the chances are you'll need an adapter plate manufacturing to do the job, so probably best to think in terms of what offers the best gearing to match the engine's power and torque characteristics for your implementation.

If you have the money, a sequential dog box (something like the Hewland JFR) would be the ultimate, but failing that, how about the Subaru 'box, if you want something fairly modern?

[ceebmoj]

I guess I was thinking transverse mounting, because that is how the other engines are mounted in the J15 and I was trying to think of a nice revey light engine combination.

Weighting for access to the forum but looks like its been done a couple of times in an MR2.
http://www.mr2oc.com/showthread.php?t=50958

defiantly been done a couple of times in a mini
http://www.16vminiclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t...

and a civic
http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2274994

Edited by ceebmoj on Sunday 27th November 21:22

[antnicuk]

We looked at it when we were looking at putting a 13b turbo engine in a Vauxhall VX 220. It can be done but it was getting quite complicated, the hardest part was finding a box that would take 500 hp. If you are running N/A then you may have more options.

We have a 13b turbo engine mated to a 4 speed porcsche 911 turbo box. It is complete with everything needed to run. It came out of a 911 that some one had converted to rotary. Its for sale if you are interested.

[ceebmoj]

Some more information on the build up for an x19
http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=521329&amp...

lots of pictures
http://oscar.messageboard.nl/7101/viewtopic.php?t=...

Edited by ceebmoj on Sunday 27th November 22:09

[ceebmoj]

antnicuk said:

We looked at it when we were looking at putting a 13b turbo engine in a Vauxhall VX 220. It can be done but it was getting quite complicated, the hardest part was finding a box that would take 500 hp. If you are running N/A then you may have more options.

We have a 13b turbo engine mated to a 4 speed porcsche 911 turbo box. It is complete with everything needed to run. It came out of a 911 that some one had converted to rotary. Its for sale if you are interested.

Thanks for the offer. I was thinking of staying far closer to 200 ish so have many more options

[Sam_68]

At that sort of power level, the K-series is the easy solution. Just as light as the wankel, more reliable (even allowing for the head gasket), better torque, better fuel economy, straightforward installation (done already by the factory demonstrator).

Unless you want a rotary for the technical novelty of it, it seems difficult to make a good case for it...

[ceebmoj]

or a 2.0 Duratec witch has also been done by the factory and I should be good able to get to 200 with throttle body's there are lots of other bolt on goody as well but weighs a bit more. or the sigma I think can be taken up to close to 200 and weights less then the K. Or possibly a Mazda KLDE V6 witch I think weighs the same as the Duratec and should give similar power on throttle body's.

I guess that the Duratec is probably the sensible option as it will give all the power I'm realistically going to need and has lots of support. After the Elise I fancied something with a bit more character and a nicer gear change action.

[Sam_68]

Yes, as you say, the Duratec weighs a good bit more than the K-series.

I wasn't aware they were getting the Sigma up to the 200bhp bracket yet (though I guess it was only a matter of time) - last time I looked into it, they were at about 160bhp. Do you have any links to engine builders who are offering more?

The gearchange on the Elise/K-series isn't all that good, I must admit, and a shortcoming of both that and the Ford engines is that they are only 5-speed gearboxes. Cost no object, you could always look at a Quaife sequential 6-speed, though?

[ceebmoj]

I have seen talk of 185-190 from the sigma but don't know how well confirmed that is.

If I had the money I would love to go for the Quaife sequential 6-speed. But given the cost of the gearbox I doubt that I can afford to do that.

Do you have a weight for the Duratec?

[Sam_68]

ceebmoj said:

Do you have a weight for the Duratec?

Exact engine weights and what are included are always a little tricky to pin down, so it's a good source of internet bickering, but there's a link to one discussion here.

Short answer seems to be approximately 115kg undressed/127kg dressed, compared to about 85kg undressed/102kg dressed for the K-series (and I think the Sigma is pretty much identical or perhaps a touch lighter than the K-series).

[ceebmoj]

Sam_68 said:

Exact engine weights and what are included are always a little tricky to pin down, so it's a good source of internet bickering, but there's a link to one discussion here.

Short answer seems to be approximately 115kg undressed/127kg dressed, compared to about 85kg undressed/102kg dressed for the K-series (and I think the Sigma is pretty much identical or perhaps a touch lighter than the K-series).

Like you say the lack of weights for engines makes for a lot of bickering and makes making a decision on the engine a bit more murky

I have seen some sources suggest that the Sigma is 10 kg lighter than the 96Kg K series. This seams a good bit lighter than the K witch is fairly light.

The Mazda KLDE V6 is supposed to weigh 110kg witch seams to be a similar weight to the Mazda rotary engine.

Having said that I guess a better comparison would be gearbox and engine weight vs power comparisons

Edited by ceebmoj on Monday 28th November 13:50

[JontyR]

One quick question....if using a FWD gearbox....what way does the engine turn?

[Racing8]

depends which engine it is, do you mean the rotary ?

[antnicuk]

rotary's turn clock wise if look at the front crack pully, anti looking from the flywheel end. (obviously)

[JontyR]

antnicuk said:

rotary's turn clock wise if look at the front crack pully, anti looking from the flywheel end. (obviously)

Indeed....this one I have a little knowledge about Honda's used to go ccw didn't they? couldn't remember which way the k-series went.

I do like your car, I'm about to build a sports prototype using a NA 20b. Should be fun

[otolith]

Sam_68 said:

At that sort of power level, the K-series is the easy solution. Just as light as the wankel, more reliable (even allowing for the head gasket), better torque, better fuel economy, straightforward installation (done already by the factory demonstrator).

Unless you want a rotary for the technical novelty of it, it seems difficult to make a good case for it...

I don't know - I'd rather have one in my Elise than any of the factory four cylinder options - I miss the smoothness, the Toyota lump I've got is a coarse old thing and so is the k-series. 155lbft, a broad flat torque curve and 230bhp would be nice too!

[Robmarriott]

Can I suggest a Volvo gearbox? The M56 from the 850 is very strong and very compact, even better, if you can find one, the M65 from the S80 inline 6 is crazy small and still pretty strong.

[ceebmoj]

where is the starter located? I think the reason that people like the Toyota one is it has the starter mounting on it

Robmarriott said:

the M65 from the S80 inline 6 is crazy small and still pretty strong.

apparently the worlds smallest production gear box at time of manufacture

Edited by ceebmoj on Wednesday 7th December 15:17