Towing a BEC with an A-frame?
Discussion
Had my first A-Frame experience yesterday, though in this case towing my Mum's broken down Astra.
My Vito handled it very nicely.
Which got me to thinking - as my R1 MNR certainly weighs under 750kg, I can presumably fairly legally tow it with an A-frame.
Is there any reason I shouldn't?
I can put the diff into neutral, which should mean the engine isn't being turned while being driven.
My Vito handled it very nicely.
Which got me to thinking - as my R1 MNR certainly weighs under 750kg, I can presumably fairly legally tow it with an A-frame.
Is there any reason I shouldn't?
I can put the diff into neutral, which should mean the engine isn't being turned while being driven.
I've been doing some research and it seems at best the law is very fuzzy.
However, as far as I know the issues with "only use for a recovery" are related to the fact that for the vast majority of cars you've basically got an unbraked trailer over 750kg.
With a light board and numberplate of the towing car, from what I can see it should be considered a trailer. Not sure if it's even got a listed GVW, but reckon it's likely to be under 750kg.
I have actually got a beavertail for work, but the Vito's much better on fuel. Be nice to take it and some bikes up to Scotland at some point too.
However, as far as I know the issues with "only use for a recovery" are related to the fact that for the vast majority of cars you've basically got an unbraked trailer over 750kg.
With a light board and numberplate of the towing car, from what I can see it should be considered a trailer. Not sure if it's even got a listed GVW, but reckon it's likely to be under 750kg.
I have actually got a beavertail for work, but the Vito's much better on fuel. Be nice to take it and some bikes up to Scotland at some point too.
Sat351 said:
Don't the big camper vans pull their little smart cars & Toyota's on a frame when they go away??
Mined you a Eco-Exo being pulled behind would be much more fun
Scott
The ones I have seen doing this have both electrical and brake connections through the frame and into the towed vehicle so it becomes a braked trailer.Mined you a Eco-Exo being pulled behind would be much more fun
Scott
Steve
Yea, big campers often have smart cars etc.
Generally cars that don't have power brakes I believe, so they can easily link to the brakes to make it a braked trailer.
However this is generally for cars over the 750kg limit.
As I say, it seems legally if it's below that 750kg it shouldn't be an issue for needing to be 'broken down' as it doesn't have to fit in to a special category to be allowed to be towed without an all-wheel braking system when over said weight.
Generally cars that don't have power brakes I believe, so they can easily link to the brakes to make it a braked trailer.
However this is generally for cars over the 750kg limit.
As I say, it seems legally if it's below that 750kg it shouldn't be an issue for needing to be 'broken down' as it doesn't have to fit in to a special category to be allowed to be towed without an all-wheel braking system when over said weight.
They connect the brakes up !!Don't quote me on this - but I think they have a mechanism as with standard trailer brakes that activates when the car pushes against the tow hitch - this pulls a cable which then pulls on the brake lever.
Fine with unassisted brakes, but the suggestion is it won't brake hard enough with assisted brakes, as they require the engine to be running.
An american company makes a box which detects movement of the car and presses on the brake lever without the need to have holes cut in your car for the brake-pulling cable.
Fine with unassisted brakes, but the suggestion is it won't brake hard enough with assisted brakes, as they require the engine to be running.
An american company makes a box which detects movement of the car and presses on the brake lever without the need to have holes cut in your car for the brake-pulling cable.
_g_ said:
Don't quote me on this - but I think they have a mechanism as with standard trailer brakes that activates when the car pushes against the tow hitch - this pulls a cable which then pulls on the brake lever.
Fine with unassisted brakes, but the suggestion is it won't brake hard enough with assisted brakes, as they require the engine to be running.
An american company makes a box which detects movement of the car and presses on the brake lever without the need to have holes cut in your car for the brake-pulling cable.
Or they have something like thisFine with unassisted brakes, but the suggestion is it won't brake hard enough with assisted brakes, as they require the engine to be running.
An american company makes a box which detects movement of the car and presses on the brake lever without the need to have holes cut in your car for the brake-pulling cable.
http://www.smart-tow.com/braking.htm
Oddly enough, before posting this, I was just wondering how much power would be needed to power a vacuum pump and even if it was a bit too much for a charged car battery, was thinking you could still have some topped up from the running car.
Oh and I like the 'break away' bit - that was one thing that was a nagging doubt towing my mum's astra with this second hand A frame that I haven't used myself before - could turn out pretty nasty if it broke free, doubly so on a steep hill.
Oh and I like the 'break away' bit - that was one thing that was a nagging doubt towing my mum's astra with this second hand A frame that I haven't used myself before - could turn out pretty nasty if it broke free, doubly so on a steep hill.
Edited by _g_ on Wednesday 30th November 16:02
When did you pass your driving test?
If before 1997 you can tow.
If after 1997 you must do a towing test.
Also,
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensi...
that gives some idea of the weights involved in towing and trailer units
It's complex!
Unable to find info re use of A-trailer though.
If before 1997 you can tow.
If after 1997 you must do a towing test.
Also,
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensi...
that gives some idea of the weights involved in towing and trailer units
It's complex!
Unable to find info re use of A-trailer though.
Put the diff in neutral? Is this a Forwards, Neutral, Reverse kind of thing?
I'd be wary of anything that involved turning gears in 'reverse' of normal use. I'd be tempted to just remove the chain as the last thing you want is the engine sprocket being turned.
Most if not all bike engines force lubricate the gearbox[1] so if the engine isn't running you get no lubrication.
[1] This is amusingly revealed when you for example don't bother to reconnect the clutch slave/arm on a through gearbox activated clutch. Cue pushrod fired across the garage/workshop followed in quick succession by the contents of the sump, normally the other side of the bike/car as you wonder why the oil pressure light hasn't yet gone off....
I'd be wary of anything that involved turning gears in 'reverse' of normal use. I'd be tempted to just remove the chain as the last thing you want is the engine sprocket being turned.
Most if not all bike engines force lubricate the gearbox[1] so if the engine isn't running you get no lubrication.
[1] This is amusingly revealed when you for example don't bother to reconnect the clutch slave/arm on a through gearbox activated clutch. Cue pushrod fired across the garage/workshop followed in quick succession by the contents of the sump, normally the other side of the bike/car as you wonder why the oil pressure light hasn't yet gone off....
_g_ said:
Don't quote me on this - but I think they have a mechanism as with standard trailer brakes that activates when the car pushes against the tow hitch - this pulls a cable which then pulls on the brake lever.
Fine with unassisted brakes, but the suggestion is it won't brake hard enough with assisted brakes, as they require the engine to be running.
An american company makes a box which detects movement of the car and presses on the brake lever without the need to have holes cut in your car for the brake-pulling cable.
Big weight on the brake pedal would make things work somewhat like a normal braked trailer, i.e. brakes are applied using inertia.Fine with unassisted brakes, but the suggestion is it won't brake hard enough with assisted brakes, as they require the engine to be running.
An american company makes a box which detects movement of the car and presses on the brake lever without the need to have holes cut in your car for the brake-pulling cable.
sospan said:
When did you pass your driving test?
If before 1997 you can tow.
If after 1997 you must do a towing test.
I did after 1997 - otherwise I'd just stick it on a trailer and wouldn't be worrying about the weights etc If before 1997 you can tow.
If after 1997 you must do a towing test.
.For an A-Frame, don't believe it does require the test being done.
This is a forward/neutral/reverse box on the diff. However it's a front-tranversely mounted engine that uses a prop-shaft on to where the output sprocket would be.
You can leave the diff in neutral with the engine in gear ok (usually when you're trying to work out why the car isn't moving
).However, of course that doesn't mean it won't turn it at all. However, with the bike gearbox in neutral too, would it still be an issue? There's various systems for towing bikes behind cars which leave the bike's rear wheel on the ground with front mounted on the car.
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