Can buses drive on outside lane of Mway +BiB "Q"
Discussion
Atrocious bit of driving from firstbus coach driver yesterday (saturday), on teh M4 heading from Cardiff to Bath.
Intimidating tactics, tailgating, speeding (over 70mph!), swerving across lanes, undertaking and forcing into traffic and use of outside lane on Mway. All with passengers on board.
This was in heavy rain and VERY bad spray.
I worte the bus details down after he undertook us and barged in front of the girlfriend. We got ahead of him again and a little later he undertook again (heavy traffic because of spray) i fixed a long cold stare at him as i was in passenger seat he slowed right down and didn't see him near us again. Maybe he could see the piece of paper in my hand, or maybe someone on board complained.
I rang police, but then chickened out and cancelled before call connected so feel i have missed my chance. Would dearly have loved some of PH's finest BiB to have been there to see!
Apalling behaviour! Will definitely be writing very strongly worded letter to First bus lot though....
Would BiB have acted if i had gone through with it? Also can buses use outside lane. My instincts say no, but i haven't copy of HC to hand.
When i
Intimidating tactics, tailgating, speeding (over 70mph!), swerving across lanes, undertaking and forcing into traffic and use of outside lane on Mway. All with passengers on board.
This was in heavy rain and VERY bad spray.
I worte the bus details down after he undertook us and barged in front of the girlfriend. We got ahead of him again and a little later he undertook again (heavy traffic because of spray) i fixed a long cold stare at him as i was in passenger seat he slowed right down and didn't see him near us again. Maybe he could see the piece of paper in my hand, or maybe someone on board complained.
I rang police, but then chickened out and cancelled before call connected so feel i have missed my chance. Would dearly have loved some of PH's finest BiB to have been there to see!
Apalling behaviour! Will definitely be writing very strongly worded letter to First bus lot though.... Would BiB have acted if i had gone through with it? Also can buses use outside lane. My instincts say no, but i haven't copy of HC to hand.
When i
Highway Code Rule 239..
"The right-hand lane of a motorway with three or more lanes MUST NOT be used (except in prescribed circumstances) if you are driving
any vehicle drawing a trailer
a goods vehicle with a maximum laden weight over 7.5 tonnes
a passenger vehicle with a maximum laden weight exceeding 7.5 tonnes constructed or adapted to carry more than eight seated passengers in addition to the driver."
Shouldn't a bus be speed limited to 55 or 60 mph too ?
"The right-hand lane of a motorway with three or more lanes MUST NOT be used (except in prescribed circumstances) if you are driving
any vehicle drawing a trailer
a goods vehicle with a maximum laden weight over 7.5 tonnes
a passenger vehicle with a maximum laden weight exceeding 7.5 tonnes constructed or adapted to carry more than eight seated passengers in addition to the driver."
Shouldn't a bus be speed limited to 55 or 60 mph too ?
Playing devils advocate for a minute here - please dont take this offensivly just an opinion based on what is posted here.
Surely no-one can undertake you if you are in the correct lane? Therefore by using the correct lanes yourself it would have stopped any undetaking from the bus?
If someone manages to undertake me then I take it as a sign that I am not in the correct lane in the first place.
No excuse either way for the bus driver, sounds like he should be removed from the road. Possibly with the aid of a pickled onion and a large syrup spoon....
Surely no-one can undertake you if you are in the correct lane? Therefore by using the correct lanes yourself it would have stopped any undetaking from the bus?
If someone manages to undertake me then I take it as a sign that I am not in the correct lane in the first place.
No excuse either way for the bus driver, sounds like he should be removed from the road. Possibly with the aid of a pickled onion and a large syrup spoon....
The outside lane is often bunching due to the lemming effect. So undertaking as such is kind of expected at times. However lane changing, harassing & general in polite driving should be reported to the bus company who will usually take rapid action to deal with the matter.
There may well have been 50 people on that bus & If I was one I would have had a word without hesitation.
I often keep a small DV video/still camera in the car, which might come in handy one day from just this type of thing.
I believe reporting this type of behaviour to the police is taken seriously as they are PSV licenced drivers & any form of dangerous driving is acted upon in PSV driver cases. I may be wrong there though.
There may well have been 50 people on that bus & If I was one I would have had a word without hesitation.
I often keep a small DV video/still camera in the car, which might come in handy one day from just this type of thing.
I believe reporting this type of behaviour to the police is taken seriously as they are PSV licenced drivers & any form of dangerous driving is acted upon in PSV driver cases. I may be wrong there though.
Wasn't me driving, was the girlfriend.
As for whether we were in the wrong lane. The lanes were pretty clogged because of weather. We had only moved into the outside lane before this happened, which had been clear and as soon as we moved into it, it clogged. You know how the Mways get in heavy spray.
In any case, the bus driver didn't let off at all. He was tailgating so he didn't lose speed and swerving from lne to lane (including the third lane) to keep going. At the time we moved into the outside lane and got slowed, at 65mph, he undertook us at about 5-10mph difference. The car we moved out to overtake (which was hogging middle lane, inside lane clear btw) held the bus up, allowing us to get past when traffic had cleared. The bus sat inches from his bumper - still at 70mph, as we past he swerved into lane three inches from the girlfriends bumper.
He later swerved (i mean swerve as in you could see the bus suspension lurch) into lane one from three under took more cars and then barged infront of a load more.
Whether or not youapprove of outside lane bunching or not, it is of no excuse for a driver of a 12tonne vehicle with 50 passengers on board to be behaving in this manner!
As for whether we were in the wrong lane. The lanes were pretty clogged because of weather. We had only moved into the outside lane before this happened, which had been clear and as soon as we moved into it, it clogged. You know how the Mways get in heavy spray.
In any case, the bus driver didn't let off at all. He was tailgating so he didn't lose speed and swerving from lne to lane (including the third lane) to keep going. At the time we moved into the outside lane and got slowed, at 65mph, he undertook us at about 5-10mph difference. The car we moved out to overtake (which was hogging middle lane, inside lane clear btw) held the bus up, allowing us to get past when traffic had cleared. The bus sat inches from his bumper - still at 70mph, as we past he swerved into lane three inches from the girlfriends bumper.
He later swerved (i mean swerve as in you could see the bus suspension lurch) into lane one from three under took more cars and then barged infront of a load more.
Whether or not youapprove of outside lane bunching or not, it is of no excuse for a driver of a 12tonne vehicle with 50 passengers on board to be behaving in this manner!
Buffalo said:
Wasn't me driving, was the girlfriend.
As for whether we were in the wrong lane. The lanes were pretty clogged because of weather. We had only moved into the outside lane before this happened, which had been clear and as soon as we moved into it, it clogged. You know how the Mways get in heavy spray.
In any case, the bus driver didn't let off at all. He was tailgating so he didn't lose speed and swerving from lne to lane (including the third lane) to keep going. At the time we moved into the outside lane and got slowed, at 65mph, he undertook us at about 5-10mph difference. The car we moved out to overtake (which was hogging middle lane, inside lane clear btw) held the bus up, allowing us to get past when traffic had cleared. The bus sat inches from his bumper - still at 70mph, as we past he swerved into lane three inches from the girlfriends bumper.
He later swerved (i mean swerve as in you could see the bus suspension lurch) into lane one from three under took more cars and then barged infront of a load more.
Whether or not youapprove of outside lane bunching or not, it is of no excuse for a driver of a 12tonne vehicle with 50 passengers on board to be behaving in this manner!
So 40 feet of bus is able to swerve repeatedly from one lane to another but 9 foot of car is stuck in one lane, interesting.
If that comment is directed back at my last explanation, we weren't stuck in one lane. We moved into the outside lane prior to his (bus) manouver in order to overtake a car that was in the middle lane. We moved back into the middle lane and finally the inside lane soon after. The bus moved into the outside lane immediately after us, at a very close distance, having sat at a couple of feet from this middle lane driver as we overtook him - a move that took us a while, as the traffic slowed to 65mph as we moved out and we had to wait for it to speed up. Couldn't move back in, as bus had undertaken and taken our place.
The girlfriend is an advanced driver and well-capable of choosing which lane she is supposed to be in, whilst maintaining distance and speed. I doubt she could have second guessed the slowing of the lane immediately after she moved into it, and in any case the under-taking meant we were stuck there anyway.
As for other drivers that the bus was moving around thats for them to argue their case as to why they were there.
Evidently it was our fault that the bus had to undertake such moves and such antics are not at all dangerous...
>> Edited by Buffalo on Monday 28th June 13:12
voyds9 said:
Wasn't me driving, was the girlfriend.
As for whether we were in the wrong lane. The lanes were pretty clogged because of weather. We had only moved into the outside lane before this happened, which had been clear and as soon as we moved into it, it clogged. You know how the Mways get in heavy spray.
In any case, the bus driver didn't let off at all. He was tailgating so he didn't lose speed and swerving from lne to lane (including the third lane) to keep going. At the time we moved into the outside lane and got slowed, at 65mph, he undertook us at about 5-10mph difference. The car we moved out to overtake (which was hogging middle lane, inside lane clear btw) held the bus up, allowing us to get past when traffic had cleared. The bus sat inches from his bumper - still at 70mph, as we past he swerved into lane three inches from the girlfriends bumper.
He later swerved (i mean swerve as in you could see the bus suspension lurch) into lane one from three under took more cars and then barged infront of a load more.
Whether or not youapprove of outside lane bunching or not, it is of no excuse for a driver of a 12tonne vehicle with 50 passengers on board to be behaving in this manner!
So 40 feet of bus is able to swerve repeatedly from one lane to another but 9 foot of car is stuck in one lane, interesting.
And your point is.....
very helpful mate
gh0st said:
Surely no-one can undertake you if you are in the correct lane? Therefore by using the correct lanes yourself it would have stopped any undertaking from the bus?
If someone manages to undertake me then I take it as a sign that I am not in the correct lane in the first place.
Complete b****x. Take one scenario out of hundreds available for not moving into the middle lane -
The outside lane traffic is smoothly travelling along at 70/80 mph, overtaking traffic in the middle lane. A gap of say 100/200 yards appears in the middle lane but a lorry is gaining on other slower lorries in the inside lane ahead and will soon want to pull out into this gap to overtake them at approx 55/60mph.
Q/ - Do you move into middle lane?
A/ - No, as you will soon need to pull out again to overtake the lorry, by which time you will be blocked-in by the traffic in the outside lane.
BUT....by leaving this gap in the middle lane, d1ckhead Firstbus coach (or BMW/Audi/Volvo) driver will jump into it, undertake and then veer out ahead to overtake the slower lorry in the middle lane, causing mayhem to what was once a nice line of smoothly travelling traffic in the outside lane.
I rest my case.
cuprabri said:
Surely no-one can undertake you if you are in the correct lane? Therefore by using the correct lanes yourself it would have stopped any undertaking from the bus?
If someone manages to undertake me then I take it as a sign that I am not in the correct lane in the first place.
Q/ - Do you move into middle lane?
A/ - No, as you will soon need to pull out again to overtake the lorry, by which time you will be blocked-in by the traffic in the outside lane.
BUT....by leaving this gap in the middle lane, d1ckhead Firstbus coach (or BMW/Audi/Volvo) driver will jump into it, undertake and then veer out ahead to overtake the slower lorry in the middle lane, causing mayhem to what was once a nice line of smoothly travelling traffic in the outside lane.
I rest my case.
What case? The whole point is that a BUS (which is quite large!) was able to undertake at all!!!!!
Feck me if I was able to undertake a few cars in a bus on a motorway then it would be like the M4 at rush hour (inside and middle lanes almost totally empty - everyone in the outside lane doing 50 "because its the fast lane"
)As an aside if you take a 2 second rule at 70mph, a bus would actually be able to fit into that gap. If you observed a larger than 2 second gap at 70mph allowing for bad weather, a then obviously there would be more room for bus to manouver in and out of lanes between the gaps of cars.
IME people who move from lane to lane or undertake, generally are not aware of the gap left by a car between him and the car infront and move into that gap simply because its there.
Although traffic was heavy due to bad weather at weekend (as above), most people had left a gap. The bus in my original post was generally moving into these gaps and dodging between lanes without lifting off. I find that unacceptable given the conditions and the weight (momentum) of the bus. The tailgating was also unecessary as if the car infront had to brake due to traffic "bunching" as so often happens on motorways in bad weather, that bus driver would be of distinct disadvantage given the braking capabilities of his vehicle. Morally with upto 50 passengers on board he is also wrong - i am sure you would argue yourlife is worth more than the price of a bus ticket between Cardiff and Bristol - even at today's inflated prices!
The bus as stated was somehow also able to travel at speeds greater than 65mph. So traffic was not so bunched as to allow the slow-movers to catch them up. I always thought their limiters were in the region of 56mph..? In any case the trucks that were out weren't behaving in similar manners so it seems this bus was a one off speedster!
>> Edited by Buffalo on Tuesday 29th June 13:16
IME people who move from lane to lane or undertake, generally are not aware of the gap left by a car between him and the car infront and move into that gap simply because its there.
Although traffic was heavy due to bad weather at weekend (as above), most people had left a gap. The bus in my original post was generally moving into these gaps and dodging between lanes without lifting off. I find that unacceptable given the conditions and the weight (momentum) of the bus. The tailgating was also unecessary as if the car infront had to brake due to traffic "bunching" as so often happens on motorways in bad weather, that bus driver would be of distinct disadvantage given the braking capabilities of his vehicle. Morally with upto 50 passengers on board he is also wrong - i am sure you would argue yourlife is worth more than the price of a bus ticket between Cardiff and Bristol - even at today's inflated prices!
The bus as stated was somehow also able to travel at speeds greater than 65mph. So traffic was not so bunched as to allow the slow-movers to catch them up. I always thought their limiters were in the region of 56mph..? In any case the trucks that were out weren't behaving in similar manners so it seems this bus was a one off speedster!
>> Edited by Buffalo on Tuesday 29th June 13:16
RichB said:
...or BMW/Audi/Volvo
Nice to see Volvo's finally being bracketed together with the premium German brands!
Nope, sorry to knock you off your perch, Volvo drivers are bracketed into the sh1thead undertaking/tailgating/lane weaving/non-working indicators league, ala BMW/Audi.
Volvo designers have added a feature to let everyone else know that one of their prattish drivers is about.....headlights on 24/7
cptsideways said:
Yeah....... but, at least you'll see them coming, which is the whole point.
If you can't see an unlit car in broad daylight either heading towrds you or in your mirrors, then IMO, it's time to seriously consider handing in your license due to incompetence or bad eyesight.
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