Red Bull & Ferrari resign from FOTA
Discussion
Mid recession, one that might last a decade... I predict F1 will in effect go bust by the end of 2013 and then they'll come back crawling back under a resource restrictment guarantee.
What a stupid thing to do, especially since I doubt even if Ferrari were to spaff even more money on their cars they'd get any further.
What a stupid thing to do, especially since I doubt even if Ferrari were to spaff even more money on their cars they'd get any further.
EDLT said:
Streps said:
Not good news for the other teams without the funds to match them.
I don't know, the difference between the fastest and slowest cars is less now than it used to be. We haven't had a team that was capable of lapping every other car on the grid for a few years now.I always beived that Max Mosely was on the right track with $50million budgets for the cars; drivers and team principals excluded.
HRT are probably spending $60 million to go 2 secs per lap quicker that a GP2 team who only need to spend about $3million a year to win the championship.
What they are spending is crazy during boom times - it is idiotic in the present financial climate.
HRT are probably spending $60 million to go 2 secs per lap quicker that a GP2 team who only need to spend about $3million a year to win the championship.
What they are spending is crazy during boom times - it is idiotic in the present financial climate.
Allyc85 said:
Any rumours as to how much over the resource limit these two teams have been? 
Exactly my thoughts. Weren't RB accused of being over budget earlier in the year?I doubt Ferrari are capable of writing the truth down either.
"We'll pull out, then you're f
ked.""Ok poppet, sit down, but don't do it next year. Ok?"
Allyc85 said:
Any rumours as to how much over the resource limit these two teams have been?
There were rumours of the top four teams leaving, or at least negotiating on their own with regards the concorde agreement. This, however, is not good news. Many people might feel that both teams have taken up an offer from those on high.It is difficult to know what the teams get from this. They can, of course, just ignore the RRA, as some suggest they have done already.
This leaves the power in the hands of whoever has the commercial rights.
There are rumours that CVC will have a floatation. A fractured FOTA with two of the top three strongest teams abandoning will be very week so will increase the price they would get quite considerably I should think.
The FIA is toothless, CVC say they are not going to sell, FOTA in ruins.
I've got no idea of what the outcome wil be. We have, of course, the time when Ferrari were flavour of the month with the FIA. Now we could have something similar.
I'm not confident this will be good for the long term future of the sport.
Would it really matter if the three best teams were to leave F1? Providing their places were filled by another team. Surely all that would happen would be that a different 3 teams would become dominant, the spectacle would remain the same just 1 sec a lap slower. I believe that the idea that the sport is reliant on any one or two teams is wrong.
Are RB and Ferrari acting in concert? Ferrari were a bit miffed earlier on this year with RB's (alledged) testing going well over the agreed limits. Ferrari, it would seem, wanted to do the same - although they did not of course.
There has been a certain blind-eye turned to infringements with regards the agreement. It seems that RB did not want to play.
By both teams opting out it leaves a Ferrari opt out nowhere near as dramatic as it would have been had it been them alone.
This could be the end of spending limits, allowing a free-for-all in the midst of a massive recession. Ferrari would appear to be confident of their ability to up the ante and RB is flush.
If McLaren and Merc don't follow suit then will they bother to continue? McL, I believe, have made massive changes to their infrastructure given the FOTA agreement and it would cost them a fortune just to prepare themselves to spend a fortune.
The elephant in the room is F1 no longer being free to air. The sponsors will be looking at their air time, the way the sport is reported in the non-specialist press and their ROI.
There could be something that's not been made public of course. What about the sale of the commercial rights? The teams will probably have an inkling of what's happening there and maybe they don't like what they see.
The McL set-up is different to that of RB. Merc has similar in the sense that they have differences.
We don't know all the facts of course. The real question is whether this suits CVC or not. If it is something to help them then god help us and the rump of FOTA. If it is an attempt to get an edge over the rest of the teams a la Ferrri with Mosley, then god help F1. If it is just a political move by the two teams (although the more I think about it the less I reckon they are cooperating on this) then god help the smaller, and middle ranking come to that, teams.
Whether Bernie is in on this is a moot point. I'm not so sure he is the mover in all of it. He seems to be marginalised at the moment so maybe it is a way for him to come back. I don't know. Whatever it isn't, it does seem to me to be two of the richest teams flexing their muscles pre the concord agreement negotiations, or at least their finalisation.
Ferrari have this belief that they are F1 merely because they've been in it the longest. If they go then a lot of fans will be upset and maybe move away. Ten years or so ago this would have been critical to the sport. Does this still go? I'm not so sure. Bernie said something about Europe being dead. Whilst this is typical Ecclestone waffle, it does give an indicator of what the marketing ploy for any sell off of the commercial rights will be suggesting.
F1 will survive, as it always has. Let's hope it is in a form that makes for decent viewing.
There has been a certain blind-eye turned to infringements with regards the agreement. It seems that RB did not want to play.
By both teams opting out it leaves a Ferrari opt out nowhere near as dramatic as it would have been had it been them alone.
This could be the end of spending limits, allowing a free-for-all in the midst of a massive recession. Ferrari would appear to be confident of their ability to up the ante and RB is flush.
If McLaren and Merc don't follow suit then will they bother to continue? McL, I believe, have made massive changes to their infrastructure given the FOTA agreement and it would cost them a fortune just to prepare themselves to spend a fortune.
The elephant in the room is F1 no longer being free to air. The sponsors will be looking at their air time, the way the sport is reported in the non-specialist press and their ROI.
There could be something that's not been made public of course. What about the sale of the commercial rights? The teams will probably have an inkling of what's happening there and maybe they don't like what they see.
The McL set-up is different to that of RB. Merc has similar in the sense that they have differences.
We don't know all the facts of course. The real question is whether this suits CVC or not. If it is something to help them then god help us and the rump of FOTA. If it is an attempt to get an edge over the rest of the teams a la Ferrri with Mosley, then god help F1. If it is just a political move by the two teams (although the more I think about it the less I reckon they are cooperating on this) then god help the smaller, and middle ranking come to that, teams.
Whether Bernie is in on this is a moot point. I'm not so sure he is the mover in all of it. He seems to be marginalised at the moment so maybe it is a way for him to come back. I don't know. Whatever it isn't, it does seem to me to be two of the richest teams flexing their muscles pre the concord agreement negotiations, or at least their finalisation.
Ferrari have this belief that they are F1 merely because they've been in it the longest. If they go then a lot of fans will be upset and maybe move away. Ten years or so ago this would have been critical to the sport. Does this still go? I'm not so sure. Bernie said something about Europe being dead. Whilst this is typical Ecclestone waffle, it does give an indicator of what the marketing ploy for any sell off of the commercial rights will be suggesting.
F1 will survive, as it always has. Let's hope it is in a form that makes for decent viewing.
Derek Smith said:
The elephant in the room is F1 no longer being free to air. The sponsors will be looking at their air time, the way the sport is reported in the non-specialist press and their ROI.
Lots of good points as usual Derek. Just wondering about the selected sentence above.Does the fact that it's the UK that is switching to pay-per-view even register on the teams radar? Am I right in saying that most countries are already on pay-per-view?
I can't really see it being a major talking point (or large land mammal in an unexpected situation) for the teams.
Allyc85 said:
Any rumours as to how much over the resource limit these two teams have been?
Red Bull have the biggest PR budget That's basically what the allegations are over. Lots of different companies that are related to RB but supposedly nothing to do with F1. I'm sure all the teams do it, but RB and i guess Ferrari are stretching the rules somewhat.
Re how much effect the Sky deal has had on F1 teams. They've noticed it and were/are worried.
Hence the HD Sky pack now includes the F1 deal. I don't think Sky nor FOC had any idea that there would be such a small take up. There's not much crossover fans with Motorsport to F1 - and in fact there's a lot of Motorsport fans that wouldn't pay a penny to line footballers pockets and the Murdoch/Hacking scandal hasn't helped the take up.
The HD package is actually a pretty good deal, even if you're upgrading as you get all those HD channels as well as F1 and it's been given the thumbs up by most.
Edited by woof on Saturday 3rd December 11:03
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