is the classic car market overheating ?
Discussion
dartissimus said:
It's Dec 2011, interest rates are likely to stay low for years to come, top end car prices seem ridiculously high. Is it just inflation or are people going to get their fingers burned like the late eighties?
Discuss
Got any asbestos gloves? Buy cars to drive; if the value goes up, lovely; if it goes down you still have a car to drive.Discuss
varsas said:
Lower end of the scale is still cheap, if anything I think values of a lot of every day classics (Stag's, Spitfire's, MGB's) have gone down over the last 3 years.
The price guide in the back of classic cars disagrees with me though.
I agree with that. I think it is because people are now a bit better informed as to what a good (read value adding) restoration actually costs. The 15k car needing 10k (+ VAT) restoration doesn't look very good value. The £19k minter does, hence top end healthy, average cars in the doldrums.The price guide in the back of classic cars disagrees with me though.
Top end of the market is performing well . . . . a little too well IMHO, as there are seemingly more higher level cars coming up for sale at the moment. It could be collectors moving their collections on, or it could be the smart money starting to cash out of the multi million cars.
There are parallels that can be easily drawn with the same market in the late 80's / 90's and I can see a correction happening sooner rather than later, especially with the cars currently selling in the £50-150k range.
The interesting question, is, will any corrections see the drops in value we all witnessed in the early 90’s, when you could pick up a 250 GTO for 7 instead of 8 figures
There are parallels that can be easily drawn with the same market in the late 80's / 90's and I can see a correction happening sooner rather than later, especially with the cars currently selling in the £50-150k range.
The interesting question, is, will any corrections see the drops in value we all witnessed in the early 90’s, when you could pick up a 250 GTO for 7 instead of 8 figures
Question - when the baby boomers die what happens then?
When the older people die, are there really that many people that will be interested in old cars say pre 1970 or have the money to be?
I know that apart from me not many of my friends are interested in classics, maybe the bubble will burst in 30 years time
Just a thought
When the older people die, are there really that many people that will be interested in old cars say pre 1970 or have the money to be?
I know that apart from me not many of my friends are interested in classics, maybe the bubble will burst in 30 years time
Just a thought
Jon Brown said:
Question - when the baby boomers die what happens then?
When the older people die, are there really that many people that will be interested in old cars say pre 1970 or have the money to be?
I know that apart from me not many of my friends are interested in classics, maybe the bubble will burst in 30 years time
Just a thought
Younger people like classics in the way they like all sorts of cars. Problem is, they can't afford them at the moment.When the older people die, are there really that many people that will be interested in old cars say pre 1970 or have the money to be?
I know that apart from me not many of my friends are interested in classics, maybe the bubble will burst in 30 years time
Just a thought
It's like houses - for a lot of young people, owning a nice car and a house of any description represents an impossible dream, mainly because the baby-boomers used them like bank accounts.
The price crash for both will come when the boomers die or want to downsize and suddenly realise their 'assets' aren't worth what they think because there's no-one in a position to pay for them.
The economy has been structured around the baby-boomers practically since they were born, and they're hardly in a rush to let go of it, especially seeing as they're the CEOs of big companies, senior banking executives and respected elder statesmen of politics now.
Jon Brown said:
Question - when the baby boomers die what happens then?
When the older people die, are there really that many people that will be interested in old cars say pre 1970 or have the money to be?
I know that apart from me not many of my friends are interested in classics, maybe the bubble will burst in 30 years time
Just a thought
I would go one step further - where are all the younger mentalists!? I am mid 30's and have a thing for ALL cars, classics included. What we need are more people with a gung-ho attitute. When I finished my Citroen and figured out I could have bought 2 decent Porsche 996 Carreras for the money I did wince a little. That said I don't really care now and am glad I did what I did. When the older people die, are there really that many people that will be interested in old cars say pre 1970 or have the money to be?
I know that apart from me not many of my friends are interested in classics, maybe the bubble will burst in 30 years time
Just a thought
We need fools. Idiots. People who can't see past the end of their noses. Damn it, we need retards to follow in our footsteps
benjj said:
When I finished my Citroen and figured out I could have bought 2 decent Porsche 996 Carreras for the money I did wince a little. That said I don't really care now and am glad I did what I did.
We need fools. Idiots. People who can't see past the end of their noses. Damn it, we need retards to follow in our footsteps
33 and spent a similar size sum in to Beetle. We are out there, you're not looking in the right places We need fools. Idiots. People who can't see past the end of their noses. Damn it, we need retards to follow in our footsteps
benjj said:
I would go one step further - where are all the younger mentalists!? I am mid 30's and have a thing for ALL cars, classics included. What we need are more people with a gung-ho attitute. When I finished my Citroen and figured out I could have bought 2 decent Porsche 996 Carreras for the money I did wince a little. That said I don't really care now and am glad I did what I did.
We need fools. Idiots. People who can't see past the end of their noses. Damn it, we need retards to follow in our footsteps
I probably fall into that category anyway, im 25 and have a 85 mini which i have rebuild although the engine and gearbox is soon to be replaced and a TVR Chimaera. So both money pits, although the TVR isn't that oldWe need fools. Idiots. People who can't see past the end of their noses. Damn it, we need retards to follow in our footsteps
benjj said:
I would go one step further - where are all the younger mentalists!? I am mid 30's and have a thing for ALL cars, classics included. What we need are more people with a gung-ho attitute. When I finished my Citroen and figured out I could have bought 2 decent Porsche 996 Carreras for the money I did wince a little. That said I don't really care now and am glad I did what I did.
We need fools. Idiots. People who can't see past the end of their noses. Damn it, we need retards to follow in our footsteps
+1 Ben, the country is in drastic need of gung-ho and adventurous types. Q, where have they all gone? I'm 46, and when looking around at the 20-somethings, something is missing, they don't appear to have any get-up-and-go; you know, a real buzz about them. irrespective of age, my closer social group's made up of car, bike and aeroplane buffs; both male and female. all of whom have imaginative characters and who live life with zest. i guess you've seen some of this on your recent rally exploits...and unlike some who aren't able to see the sheer fun-factor in nipping over to rutland for tea and biscuits We need fools. Idiots. People who can't see past the end of their noses. Damn it, we need retards to follow in our footsteps
v8250 said:
benjj said:
I would go one step further - where are all the younger mentalists!? I am mid 30's and have a thing for ALL cars, classics included. What we need are more people with a gung-ho attitute. When I finished my Citroen and figured out I could have bought 2 decent Porsche 996 Carreras for the money I did wince a little. That said I don't really care now and am glad I did what I did.
We need fools. Idiots. People who can't see past the end of their noses. Damn it, we need retards to follow in our footsteps
+1 Ben, the country is in drastic need of gung-ho and adventurous types. Q, where have they all gone? I'm 46, and when looking around at the 20-somethings, something is missing, they don't appear to have any get-up-and-go; you know, a real buzz about them. irrespective of age, my closer social group's made up of car, bike and aeroplane buffs; both male and female. all of whom have imaginative characters and who live life with zest. i guess you've seen some of this on your recent rally exploits...and unlike some who aren't able to see the sheer fun-factor in nipping over to rutland for tea and biscuits We need fools. Idiots. People who can't see past the end of their noses. Damn it, we need retards to follow in our footsteps
But I'm finding it time and again with the internet. I routinely drive hundreds of miles all over the country and I take great pleasure in navigating using a map. I don't even know how to work a satnav and yet it's written off as too much like hard work by most of my mates. I'm an avid cyclist and ride not only for pleasure and exercise, but also to and from work as often as I can manage it when the weather's conducive. I am frankly flabbergasted time and again to find that most people I meet my age and under don't even own a bike.
Nearly everything I enjoy is outdoors, enjoying nature, hands-on, mechanical in some way or other, or a little bit adventurous, even if it's just always choosing the oddest-looking furniture and cookery.
But most people my age or younger just sneer and turn back to their smartphone on which they conduct their entire lives, wondering why I clearly want to make my life so difficult when it's all so easy to just prod at a computer for a bit.
Problem is, computers are just too rational for us as a species. We are irrational, emotional beings with a need to fill our lives with challenges and risky pursuits. Instead, it seems we are seeing the 'logic' in computers, recognising that they're 'better' at everything than we are, so therefore should be deferred to.
Problem with that is, the computer therefore becomes the most important thing about the world, not the human. We are the most prominant things on this planet, therefore everything should defer to us. Our irrationality is more important - to the balance of our own sanity as much as anything - than the cold rationality of computers.
By contrast, so many young people I meet seem just plain strange. They get almost religiously excited about the thought of a new mobile phone. There's also something missing behind the eyes, a certain spark of excitement or sense of fun. The only thing I can think of that's similar is in Star Trek: The Motion Picture when Spock returns from Vulcan having purged himself of all emotion in the Kohlinar ritual. Emotion and irrationality is illogical, to be dismissed with a knowing, metropolitan, effortless sneer. Computers, calculations and communication is the only thing that makes sense.
I'd hate to live in that world, I really would. Nothing is 'real' and everything that creates 'excitement' just seems to boil down to a slightly different way of getting in touch with your mates. Thing is, people don't even want to meet face-to-face down the pub any more. For some reason, Facebook instant messaging constitutes socialising nowadays, so young people can't even be bothered learning to drive, visiting their mates or going to pubs. At a few days off 28, I'm finding I'm still one of the youngest people in the average pub.
What the hell is going on?!
twincam16. a well written piece of prose. it's a real shame the uk's missing it's famous va-va-voom type character these days. i am certain that some social groups have completely lost their fun-mojo. if you ask nicely, i'm sure benjj will invite you to the inaugural teasmaid international meet towards end of january. location rutland or possibly silvestone...or as you're in cambridge, may be raf duxford?ben, raf duxford's a cracking place to meet. easy access, plenty of pubs in area, good parking and a thoroughly good day out.
ps twincam16, note you had a fiat x/19...managed to go off-roading in mine circa' 1989...left road at 60+mph after some very-failed spirited driving, through BIG hedgerow into cornfield. no-one hurt, drove out of field by gate, then home to parents who noted the car didn't quite look the same; one of life's little adventures
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