You know the hourglass has been turned over....

[Jammy Dodger]

.....when you still see the monster sports car of your late 20s as a contemporary car, but the younger generation calls it a classic.

Just occurred to me, late in the process of my SC project, thinking back over the reactions the project has generated. I did it because I felt the car wasn't proper quick enough and realised tonight how many people had reacted with "well what did you expect ? It's a classic car !"

Anything with 3.6 litres or more weighing a tonne should still be proper quick shouldn't it, even by current standards ?

[SILICONEKID340HP]

Do you have mild form of aspergers

The mainstay of management is behavioral therapy, focusing on specific deficits to address poor communication skills, obsessive or repetitive routines, and physical clumsiness

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome

Edited by SILICONEKID340HP on Monday 5th December 23:56

[Jammy Dodger]

SILICONEKID340HP said:

Do you have mild form of aspergers

The mainstay of management is behavioral therapy, focusing on specific deficits to address poor communication skills, obsessive or repetitive routines, and physical clumsiness

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome

Edited by SILICONEKID340HP on Monday 5th December 23:56

eh ? wtf are you on about now Daz ? lol

All Im saying is that only yesterday - when I was 28 - the Chim/Griff were "right now" and fastest things on 4 wheels (within reason). Today all of a sudden I'm 42 and the car is expected to be slow (relatively) all of a sudden ? Because it's a Classic ? Despite weighing only a tonne and 5.0 ?

A bit like when Cindy Crawford lost her crown to Elle McPherson....

But which is better ? only one way to find out !

[900T-R]

Jammy Dodger said:

eh ? wtf are you on about now Daz ? lol

All Im saying is that only yesterday - when I was 28 - the Chim/Griff were "right now" and fastest things on 4 wheels (within reason). Today all of a sudden I'm 42 and the car is expected to be slow (relatively) all of a sudden ? Because it's a Classic ? Despite weighing only a tonne and 5.0 ?

<sigh>

You're specifically looking for a car that's fast > 100 mph. A tiny, open sports car really isn't the best suited base to achieve it. The fact that it's just a tonne is neither here nor there - at that (highly irrelevant in today's environment) end of the envelope it's a simple matter of horsepower against drag.

OTOH Evo observed (fat printed = own measurement) a 4.8 0-60 and 11.2 0-100 for both the 430 and 500 variants of the Griff. To put that in perspective - the latter figure is lower than that of any factory Evo/Impreza variant tested so far.

[Jammy Dodger]

900T-R said:

<sigh>

You're specifically looking for a car that's fast > 100 mph. A tiny, open sports car really isn't the best suited base to achieve it. The fact that it's just a tonne is neither here nor there - at that (highly irrelevant in today's environment) end of the envelope it's a simple matter of horsepower against drag.

OTOH Evo observed (fat printed = own measurement) a 4.8 0-60 and 11.2 0-100 for both the 430 and 500 variants of the Griff. To put that in perspective - the latter figure is lower than that of any factory Evo/Impreza variant tested so far.

:sigh: ???

et tu Eric ?

blimey ! didn't expect such a reaction from a late night half formed stream of consciousness post !

hmmm - for perspective (but maybe my expectations have changed) I don't recall my Lotus M100 Elan SE turbos feeling gutless over 110 in the 90s (but arguably the competition was less advanced at the time). More recently my Boxster RS60 just pulled and pulled and pulled up to indicated 161. And I've ALWAYS driven topless unless in more than a drizzle.

Regardless - obscurely, I wasn't clear : the post was much less about performance, much more so about being smacked in the face by realisation of middle age !

[dbv8]

Serious question.... How fast do you want your car to be?
Enough to keep up with almost every supercar you may rarely be alongside on the dual carriageway.
Enough to suprise a mediocre bike.

All i know is i want to go faster every time i go to the strip. Its a never ending evolution.

[M@H]

Jammy Dodger said:

All Im saying is that only yesterday - when I was 28 - the Chim/Griff were "right now" and fastest things on 4 wheels (within reason). Today all of a sudden I'm 42 and the car is expected to be slow (relatively) all of a sudden ? Because it's a Classic ? Despite weighing only a tonne and 5.0 ?

Baiscally because its a british manufacturer that is assigned to the history books along with all the other classics - that and you can get a bit of Jap tat for peanuts that will blow it away these days !

Displacement is not longer king - its high revving smaller engines with clever turbo stuff and massive boost !

[EGB]

900T-R said:

<sigh>

You're specifically looking for a car that's fast > 100 mph. A tiny, open sports car really isn't the best suited base to achieve it. The fact that it's just a tonne is neither here nor there - at that (highly irrelevant in today's environment) end of the envelope it's a simple matter of horsepower against drag.

OTOH Evo observed (fat printed = own measurement) a 4.8 0-60 and 11.2 0-100 for both the 430 and 500 variants of the Griff. To put that in perspective - the latter figure is lower than that of any factory Evo/Impreza variant tested so far.

What will be the price of an EVO/Impretza in 10 years time. Good 1999 Griffs are now £17,000+. See Classic CAR Weekly. Best standard Griff did 0-60 in 4.2sec. 0-100 in 10.5 I am 74, and as Jack Nicholson said "Having a ride on the wild side"

[Goaty Bill]

Pulled into the office car park early one morning, first time taking the Chimaera to work, and a young lady came rushing out to say how much she loved the car.
Usual car type small talk ensued, finishing with; "You really must take me for a drive soon, I just love old cars"!
Pointing out politely that this "old car" would happily outrun every car that would arrive in the car park today, (knowing that the guy with the supercharged M3 wasn't going to be there that day ), had no effect on her whatsoever.

"old cars" is how people referred to my father's 1914 Model T Ford ffs.
I remember when this car was both new (almost) and mine.
How can that be old?

Yep, the years go by.

Edited by Goaty Bill on Tuesday 6th December 11:23

[M@H]

Goaty Bill said:

Pulled into the office car park early one morning ... and a young lady came rushing out to say how much she loved the car.

Happy days, nuff said

[JonyTVR]

well they are? you can get classic insurance policys and everything

Thing is the chim is neally 20 years old now and whilst it looks very good for its age, compare to a GTR and it looks VERY OLD, and will not be able to keep up with the NISSAN round a track.

but I'm ok as I am still young compared to you old farts :P

[so called]

Jammy Dodger said:

Regardless - obscurely, I wasn't clear : the post was much less about performance, much more so about being smacked in the face by realisation of middle age !

Know that feeling. I've even started thinking my Tuscans too fast.

[dbv8]

JonyTVR said:

compare to a GTR and it looks VERY OLD, and will not be able to keep up with the NISSAN round a track.

Or anywhere else for that matter.
I know a GTR that ran 11.6 out of the box and 11.4 best and runs within a tenth or 2 every time on the tyres it came with.

[EGB]

Wife is always nervous of a ride in the Griff, but young ladies on the forecourt in Hondas and Subarus say "lovely colour, love to have a ride" Has street cred and will have in another 10 years. What about the others, methinks very unlikely!

[haircutmike]

SILICONEKID340HP said:

Do you have mild form of aspergers

The mainstay of management is behavioral therapy, focusing on specific deficits to address poor communication skills, obsessive or repetitive routines, and physical clumsiness

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome

Edited by SILICONEKID340HP on Monday 5th December 23:56

Daz, you've been warned before about reading,..........don't!

As to all the rest of the posts, it's a probable yes, yes, yes and yes.

It's all part of the big equation.

Techknowledgy ensures even a 1.6 turbo thingy is sh*t hot now and as the years fly by we'll be overtaken by a 500cc triple turbine Kia. All the time we become old and decrepid and dream about that 3.0l Capri we had at 19 that would see off anything, (mostly) that the world could throw at us.

Time and memory mixed together to produce that rose tinted reality, don't you just love it .

[dbv8]

Tony had a 3.0s and I had my first V8 SD1 at about 19. Thats when the rivalry began.

I thought the SD1 was truly awesome and after some home brewed tuning ran 15.1 @ 102 at York.
I was very happy with that at the time

[M@H]

haircutmike said:

Time and memory mixed together to produce that rose tinted reality, don't you just love it .

Yep ..it nearly made me buy a 308 GTS back in the summer, but somehow I resisted.

[900T-R]

Jammy Dodger said:

:sigh: ???

et tu Eric ?

blimey ! didn't expect such a reaction from a late night half formed stream of consciousness post !

hmmm - for perspective (but maybe my expectations have changed) I don't recall my Lotus M100 Elan SE turbos feeling gutless over 110 in the 90s (but arguably the competition was less advanced at the time).

But in reality, they were a lot slower at those speeds (probably Chim 400 levels - 0-100 in the mid-13s) - unless both your standard Chimaeras were more than a bit off-colour. Also by how quickly an indicated 150 turns up on mine - which so far has never posted more than 275 PS on a dyno - I'd say 160 wouldn't be too much of a problem. And I wouldn't want to go any bl00dy faster in it! At lower speeds, overcoming traction isn't too much of a problem either even on the best coilovers money can buy.

Neither my engine builder at the time (and former keeper of the car) and the international superbike championship rider who rolling roaded it last time, said 'You know what? I think it could use a little more power' after having taken the car out ...

To reiterate - both the 430 and 500 are quicker to 100 than every factory Impreza/Evo so far - and the higher tuned versions of these won't cost 'peanuts' to run in spite of what people say.
They give any current Aston Martin including the V12V a run for their money up to 100 (ok, maybe not the One-77 but that car hasn't been figured yet). An M3 V8-equipped Wiesmann is only marginally faster 0-60 and 0-100, while the outgoing one with the old M3 six would just about cope.

The current batch of ultra-saloons will do 0-60 in a low 4s and 0-100 in 10; that's only marginally quicker but running costs and depreciation are fecking huge.

I'd say outright performance is the least of the cars' problems given the short wheelbase and the rather basic level of tech underneath. Compared to everything else in the back pages of Evo right now you'd have to give the old things probably about 9/10 for outright performance while I can't see them reaching quite the same heights in the handling and braking stakes. Not as they came from Bristol Ave., anyway.

Saddling one with ~400 bhp/tonne in road trim - well, you're a far braver man than I am... Personally I'd sooner have bought a Cerb to run alongside the Chim if high-speed antics were my thing.

[M@H]

900T-R said:

To reiterate - both the 430 and 500 are quicker to 100 than every factory Impreza/Evo so far - and the higher tuned versions of these won't cost 'peanuts' to run in spite of what people say..

That was me.. and having owned a couple of Imprezas I felt qualified to comment A "standard" Impreza is about the same as a standard Chimaera 400 but a lot depends on conditions as the Impreza can get the power down way easier than the Chim so in real life (i.e. a damp English day) its quicker.

A non-standard Impreza (depending on what you call standard) is very exciting indeed ! my standard Green i was quicker then either of my 400's and would also "have" a 430 or 450 I reckon - it cost peanuts to buy (£4500), peanuts to run (under £250 a year) and didn't really depreciate (sold for £4k).

The thing to re-iterate is that its all very well talking about numbers from straight runway airfield tests, but in any normal "road" conditions a 4wd loony car is going to be able to get where its going better, quicker. Also as an aside, you can happily cruise at 150 in an Impreza without wondering if the bonnet is going to take off

Some figures:
Impreza GC8D - Curb weight 1,250 kg with 280 PS/276? BHP (220 per ton)
Chimaera Curb weight 1100? kg 400: 200-220bhp (200 per ton) 430: 230-250bhp (220 per ton) 500: 270-280bhp (250 per ton) ?? (happy to debate bhp numbers)

So considering the batter stability, grip and handling of the peanuts jap car I don't see where the better performance of the Chim is.. all IMO

Edited by M@H on Tuesday 6th December 15:37 as the post sounded unintentionally argumentative

Edited by M@H on Tuesday 6th December 15:40

[Jammy Dodger]

900T-R said:

Saddling one with ~400 bhp/tonne in road trim - well, you're a far braver man than I am... Personally I'd sooner have bought a Cerb to run alongside the Chim if high-speed antics were my thing.

400/tonne ? i wish - be 370-390 range (hopefully)

not really in road trim either - nitrons, uprated springs, brakes (yes, those big heavy dustbin lid tuscan brakes ), Steve Gug set up, diff, box, driveshafts blah blah.

I may/may not yet brace it up a bit underneath in due course

Shame it looks a bit ratty, but for now that will be part of it's charm...

If there had been a Cerb 4.5RR CABRIO i would've...