Info need on a unique ferrari 250 LM
Discussion
OK folks, I have been a 60's Ferrari fan for as long as I can remember with favs including the 275 GTB/4 and the 250 GT Lusso. A particular fave has always been Ferrari's first mid engined sports car the 250 LM which I think is a wonderful looking thing. Anyway over the years of having admired this car I always wondered why the roof line was truncated in the way it was, i.e. cut off above the engine cover. My rudimentary grasp of aerodynamics always lead me to believe the car would be more aero efficient if the LM had a proper clam cover reaching back from roof to the back of the car with a possible window like we see in the modern V8 powered cars, I even went so far as to mock up some pics to see what it would look like, and I have to say even I was impressed with the results.
Anyway you can then imagine my surprise when I came across these pics by accident recently, to say they mirrored my fantasy LM would be a massive understatement. I could not believe my fantasy actually existed. Now my initial investigations seem to indicate that this was the one and only pure road version of the LM. Does anyone else have any info on what has to be the best looking LM ever
Anyway, this is what the rear end of a normal LM looks like:
And here is my fantasy car
I just love these mini Gullwings:
Anyway you can then imagine my surprise when I came across these pics by accident recently, to say they mirrored my fantasy LM would be a massive understatement. I could not believe my fantasy actually existed. Now my initial investigations seem to indicate that this was the one and only pure road version of the LM. Does anyone else have any info on what has to be the best looking LM ever
Anyway, this is what the rear end of a normal LM looks like:
And here is my fantasy car
I just love these mini Gullwings:
Edited by Streetrod on Tuesday 6th December 16:45
http://www.cavallino.com/
They would be the journal of Ferrari history.
But anyway.
http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/car/2736/Ferrari-25...
Lots and lots of photos on that page.
They would be the journal of Ferrari history.
But anyway.
http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/car/2736/Ferrari-25...
Lots and lots of photos on that page.
Edited by davepoth on Tuesday 6th December 17:23
RemainAllHoof said:
It may well be aerodynamically superior but that new rear window is awful.
Actually, and not all that shockingly the race car has better arodynamics because it DOESN'T have that window.If you're building something very streamlined that's only ever going to deal with smooth (laminar) flow then the classic idea of what's aerodymanic apply - but that's aircraft moving fast through air that's only touching other air, or subs moving through water that's only touching other water.
If you're dealing with something like a car then you aren't dealing with laminar flow, you're dealing with turbulant flow. At ground level you're not just dealing with air surrounded by other air, all doing much the same thing. Instead you're dealing with air interacting with the ground, cars, trees, buildings, etc and it's all a bit of a mess.
With an aircraft wing smooth surfaces and curves help the flow remain attaches to the surface, as you get turbulance when it seperates and that creates drag.
With a car it's all a bit of a mess anyway so you don't try to keep the flow attached, you try to trigger the seperation as sharply as possible, because a nice clean seperation causes less drag than a long drawn out one.
Most cars these days have very steep backs, and often a little lip on the back edge of the roof. This helps with a very sharp seperation of the flow and low drag.
The Subaru Impreza WRX has a massive rear wing. It provides a little bit of downforce, but it doesn't need to be that big to do that. The reason it's so bit - and particularly so tall to to help manage the sirflow that seperates from the rear edge of the roof. Without the wing the cars size/shape are such that the flow detaching from the roof can interact with the flow detaching from the boot lid. The big wing keeps them apart and reduces drag.
AndrewW-G said:
Streetrod said:
Could anyone hazard a guess as to how much the white LM is worth?
It's owned by one of the wealthiest men in Mexico, so may not be up for sale any time soon, but probably in the £3-5m rangeNow I just love this cars interior, but those have to be the most offset peddles ever. It would have been better if it was a single seater
Edited by Streetrod on Thursday 8th December 19:49
I'm glad you found images of this car. The 250/275LM has always been one of those cars that I just can't seem to warm to from an aesthetic point of view, presumably because of the rear deck treatment. Now that I have seen this version, I am finally able to conclude that the fast back rear does not make all the difference. There are still design issues that even this does not resolve IMO.
It may have been Ferrari's first tilt at a racing middie, so function was more important than form, but I still believe that every subsequent mid-engined Ferrari race car was a better-looking proposition than the LM. I'd take one of the "P" series cars or even a 206S Dino over an LM any day, just for the shear beauty of the things.
It's like the '64 GTO's don't quite have the visual magic of the earlier cars, despite presumably being a tad faster around a race track.
It may have been Ferrari's first tilt at a racing middie, so function was more important than form, but I still believe that every subsequent mid-engined Ferrari race car was a better-looking proposition than the LM. I'd take one of the "P" series cars or even a 206S Dino over an LM any day, just for the shear beauty of the things.
It's like the '64 GTO's don't quite have the visual magic of the earlier cars, despite presumably being a tad faster around a race track.
LotusOmega375D said:
I'm glad you found images of this car. The 250/275LM has always been one of those cars that I just can't seem to warm to from an aesthetic point of view, presumably because of the rear deck treatment. Now that I have seen this version, I am finally able to conclude that the fast back rear does not make all the difference. There are still design issues that even this does not resolve IMO.
It may have been Ferrari's first tilt at a racing middie, so function was more important than form, but I still believe that every subsequent mid-engined Ferrari race car was a better-looking proposition than the LM. I'd take one of the "P" series cars or even a 206S Dino over an LM any day, just for the shear beauty of the things.
It's like the '64 GTO's don't quite have the visual magic of the earlier cars, despite presumably being a tad faster around a race track.
I respect your opinion to dislike the looks of this LM but respectfully have to conclude that you are wrong It may have been Ferrari's first tilt at a racing middie, so function was more important than form, but I still believe that every subsequent mid-engined Ferrari race car was a better-looking proposition than the LM. I'd take one of the "P" series cars or even a 206S Dino over an LM any day, just for the shear beauty of the things.
It's like the '64 GTO's don't quite have the visual magic of the earlier cars, despite presumably being a tad faster around a race track.
I agree on your GTO point thoughMy cousin raced this car his name is Jeff Edmonds.
You can find all the info you need in the links below hope this helps.
http://www.racingsportscars.com/driver/results/Jef...
https://www.kidston.com/kidston-cars/46/1964-Ferra...
You can find all the info you need in the links below hope this helps.
http://www.racingsportscars.com/driver/results/Jef...
https://www.kidston.com/kidston-cars/46/1964-Ferra...
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