Winter in the Alps - snow chains requirement

[Singh911]

I am going to the Alps in a couple of weeks in my X5. I understand that i need to carry snow chains. BMW state that they must only be fitted to the rear - the mannual also states this.

I've driven to the Alps many times but never been asked by the police to show them/put on the chains. Would one set of chains satisfy them (if i have the car mannual with me to prove that only one set are needed?)

Also, given the clearance issues with my 20" wheels, has anyone used either of these? - or perhaps have any reccomendations?

http://www.roofbox.co.uk/scripts/rbvehsel4_tab.php...

http://www.snowchains.co.uk/snowchains/Weissenfels...

Thanks as always

[ALawson]

You need to check which countries you are driving through as German and Austria require winter tyres to be worn as well over the winter months. Honest John has covered this topic recently. Although at the moment summer tyres might be a better bet!

[SWH]

Singh911 said:

http://www.snowchains.co.uk/snowchains/Weissenfels...

Dead easy to fit, even in the dark/wind/blizzard at the side of a frozen road, having not really read the instructions - made my Saab 9-5 pretty much unstoppable.

If the handbook says rears only, then I'd be happy with that; you're unlikely to be the only X5 owner there and could always get a set of snow socks locally for the fronts if the weather is really bad.

Keeping a couple of bin liners in the snowchains box to put them in when you take them off is top tip too...!

Have fun

ETA - ^^^ that snowchains site - good chaps, I've had two sets of chains and a massive roof box from them so far, never a problem, decent prices when I was looking too.

[CraigyMc]

ALawson said:

You need to check which countries you are driving through as German and Austria require winter tyres to be worn as well over the winter months. Honest John has covered this topic recently. Although at the moment summer tyres might be a better bet!

Don't they only require this of locally registered cars?
C

[ClaphamGT3]

Rears will be fine. The French Gendarmes want to see them on the principal driven wheels and their concern is to prevent cars getting stuck and blocking roads, not preventing accidents. On the higher roads in poor conditions, the gendamerie will sometimes set up road check points to enforce chains. Only put them on if you have to as they restrict your speed, comprimise handling and do a hell of a lot of damage if they come off.

You can by them for a fraction of the UK price in French service stations/automarches and the bin-liner/pair of work gloves tip is a good one.

[JMGS4]

Winter tyres are 100% requirement (D, DH; A and some parts of F) and snow chains where the snowchain sign is posted (a blue sign of a wheel with snowchains fitted.
And chains MUST be fitted to ALL wheels, no good having drive when you can't steer!!! Maximum speed with chains is 50kph as well!!! Handbook is bullshoit, since when did BMW know anything about driving in snow!!!
DID they also tell you you HAVE to have extras glasses (if you wear them) triangle, first aid kit, warning vest AND a spare set of bulbs...... some places also a tow rope??

[Singh911]

This is the trouble i have - there does not seem to be a definitive answer. Only fitting chains to the rear does not make intuitive sense. However, the handbook and the dealer (who admittedly will just toe the party line) insist that they are fitted to the rear only. Add Gendarme filter to it and there is only confusion!

There seems to be a huge difference in prices - I am told that due to the lack of clearance with 20" wheels (BMW dont even sell chains for this size, max size 19" only), I need the expensive type. No issues with that but just the 2 v 4 issue.

Someone must have done this in an X5?!

Cheers

[MasterDG]

Not sure how these compare to 'proper' snow chains, but might help with the clearance issues?
http://www.raysmith.co.uk/mita-universal-anti-skid...

[maser_spyder]

Singh911 said:

This is the trouble i have - there does not seem to be a definitive answer. Only fitting chains to the rear does not make intuitive sense. However, the handbook and the dealer (who admittedly will just toe the party line) insist that they are fitted to the rear only. Add Gendarme filter to it and there is only confusion!

There seems to be a huge difference in prices - I am told that due to the lack of clearance with 20" wheels (BMW dont even sell chains for this size, max size 19" only), I need the expensive type. No issues with that but just the 2 v 4 issue.

Someone must have done this in an X5?!

Cheers

Not an X5, but have chains for the Landcruiser (in the alps for the past two years).

The ONLY time I've ever needed them, was for a week in Cheltenham, last year.

I had similar advice to you, only fit to the front. Sounded odd to me, but I gave them a try last winter, and they worked an absolute treat. Huge difference on just having winter tyres.

Bear in mind you can only do 25-30 mph max. on chains though. This will be obvious once you have driven on them for about 50 yards!

Also chuck in to your snow chains bag;

Builders gloves (the 1.99 ones from screwfix with the rubber hand bits),
Kneeling pad (like a gardener uses),
Cheap plastic anorak.

If you're putting on chains, it'll be in the snow, which is cold (very cold). The kneeling pad will save getting your knees wet, and the gloves will protect your hands (they really work these builders gloves).

The anorak is for taking the chains off! You can't drive on tarmac with chains, but they'll still be snow around the arches. Reason you need an anorak is chains are easy to fit putting them on, as you put the link at the top of the wheel. But when you pull over, the link could be anywhere....

Easiest way to get them off is to feel around behind the wheel to find the link, and unclip on both sides. Then drive forwards a metre. Then recover your chains.


As for fitting them, it's incredibly easy. My first time took me less than 5 minutes per side, and I'm a lot quicker now after some practice!

[maser_spyder]

CraigyMc said:

ALawson said:

You need to check which countries you are driving through as German and Austria require winter tyres to be worn as well over the winter months. Honest John has covered this topic recently. Although at the moment summer tyres might be a better bet!

Don't they only require this of locally registered cars?
C

Yes.

Visiting cars need snow chains instead of (or as well as) winter tyres. Winters are not mandatory for visitors.

[CraigyMc]

maser_spyder said:

CraigyMc said:

ALawson said:

You need to check which countries you are driving through as German and Austria require winter tyres to be worn as well over the winter months. Honest John has covered this topic recently. Although at the moment summer tyres might be a better bet!

Don't they only require this of locally registered cars?
C

Yes.

Visiting cars need snow chains instead of (or as well as) winter tyres. Winters are not mandatory for visitors.

I thought so too, but looking at the (UK) AA website, it suggests that in Germany at least, the rules were changed at the end of 2010.

Now I'm not sure what to believe!

C

[Snowboy]

Around the alps there are blue snowchains signs, if it's snowing and the gendarmes are out, they won't let you past the signs without chains.

I have heard (but have no proof) that they will sometimes let past a 4x4 with snow tyres as they consider this to be enough to get through the snow.
This may be nonsense or it may be true depending on the exact weather.

Practice putting the snowchains on at home. Don’t' wait until you're on the roadside in the dark in a blizzard. They aren't that hard to fit when you know how to, but very hard if you don't. Especially if you find there's a bit missing/broken.

In a RWD car put them on the back.
On a FWD it's on the front.
On a 4wd car there's a whole discussion about whether you are going uphill, downhill, want to understeer or oversteer and more.
Whether it's true 4wd with locked diffs or some sort of AWD/4x4 system with electronic diffs that shifts the power to different wheels depending on grip.
It's best to just do what the handbooks says – although, if it comes to an argument with the gendarmes do what they say.

In chains you'll be driving slowly.
Stay in low gear, use engine breaking through the chained wheels where you can.
Even without chains on the front you will have some limited steering at low speeds, just take it easy, smile and wave a lot to people as you get in each other way, try not to crash.

If you don't have chains you won't be arrested or anything.
You just won't be allowed to go up the mountain. You'll be diverted into a carpark and have to just sit and wait.
If you somehow get past them without snowchains and get stuck you might get into some trouble though.

[maser_spyder]

CraigyMc said:

I thought so too, but looking at the (UK) AA website, it suggests that in Germany at least, the rules were changed at the end of 2010.

Now I'm not sure what to believe!

C

Hmm, interesting....

I'm over there for the season, so have winter tyres anyway, and I must admit my research was all back in 2009. But I do remember a lot of the AA information being wrong when I double checked it on German websites back then.

As for who to ask, no idea! Call Angela Merkel direct?

[Snowboy]

I have heard, but have no proof, that if you're a visitor with summer tyres you'll be fine in normal conditions.
But if you head up into the mountains or wilderness in bad weather and have a crash or need a rescue they'll throw the book at you.

If you're stopped at a roadblock they may send you back to town and not let you up the mountain.

[JMGS4]

maser_spyder said:

Winters are not mandatory for visitors.

WRONG!! Winter tyres or all year tyres are mandatory in D, CH and A for all vehicles of all nationalities when driving on snow ice slush or frost.
Especially in Austria as the Police are racist there.... they actually look specifically for visitors cars to find a fine they can drop on them....

[maser_spyder]

JMGS4 said:

maser_spyder said:

Winters are not mandatory for visitors.

WRONG!! Winter tyres or all year tyres are mandatory in D, CH and A for all vehicles of all nationalities when driving on snow ice slush or frost.
Especially in Austria as the Police are racist there.... they actually look specifically for visitors cars to find a fine they can drop on them....

Yes, but spot the big caveat there....

Winter tyres are not mandatory in DE / CH / A.

They are mandatory if driving on snow, ice, slush or frost.

That's quite a big difference!

[jamesson]

Snowboy said:

engine breaking

[Snowboy]

To be fair, if the OP is going to the alps I think it's fair to assume he's going skiing or snowboarding, so it's likely he'll be driving on snow, frost and slush.

[Snowboy]

jamesson said:

Snowboy said:

engine breaking

You have a problem with my comment?
Perhaps you could elaborate and explain exactly why rather than just post a single image like that?

Or is it just because of the brake/break typo?

[C8PPO]

OP, couple of things:

1. Buy the right type for your wheels - if you fit the ordinary/cheap type, they will TRASH your alloys within the first few hundred yards. You will need the type with "stand-offs" to keep the chain off the alloy.

2. It used to be the case that you could buy snow chains from Halfrauds, (if they have the right type as above) and if you don't use them and they're still sealed, you could return them after your holiday as "unwanted" and get a full refund Haven't tried that recently though.