My 4,000th post
Discussion
My 4,000th post so wanted it to be a notable one. I find myself at something of a crossroads as to what to say. What I want to write is a bit negative but as a person I'm quite positive. I look forwards not backwards and try to see the good in a situation. So if I come across as a grumpy old man I apologise, I'm far more friendly in the flesh.
This was the first forum I ever posted on. I didn't really understand how things worked but it seemed simple enough so just over 8 years ago I came aboard. Whilst I've now posted on several forums I've never really subscribed to the basic principles of Forums in terms of anonymity and typing shorthand. The former will, I fear, be the ultimate death of forums, the latter the potential death of civilised society. The day we all forget how to write the Queen's English in favour of forum shorthand is the day we die as a nation. My poor daughter must be the only 11 year old who BBMs in fully cohesive English because Dad makes her
With regards anonymity I've made sure on every forum I've ever posted on I have used my real name and told everyone who I am. The cynics on here will say it's because I'm only on here to milk the place dry in terms of publicity. I would argue more honourable motives. Many of my posts over the years have involved giving help or advice . It's why most people come on these places. They have a question, want to solve a problem or need to vent their spleen about something which has annoyed them. Now begins the problem of anonymity.
When asking a question it helps if you know something about the person giving an answer. Advice on how best to reassemble that Carrera GT engine in the front room would carry slightly more weight were it from a senior technician rather than a 14 year old school boy in his bedroom. The problem is Spannerman could be either.
As you head off backwards through your third hedge with Agnes' flannelette underpants somewhat obscuring your rearwards, which is now forwards, visibility and the rest of her washing line following on closely behind you might be questioning the driving advice kindly proffered by Fangio57. There is just an outside chance that he or she may not be the driving god everyone thinks them to be. Anonymity means you will never know.
Of late I've been renewing the acquaintance with my TIPEC regional membership. The first Tuesday of the month has seen me scoot up the M40 for a bite to eat and a bit of a natter. This week was the Christmas dinner and as the Missus dragged me away at just after 11 O'clock because Ems was at school the next day I couldn't help thinking I'd enjoyed myself. Where had the time gone? The conversation had flowed and civility was the order of the night because we all knew who everyone was. I couldn't claim to be some overweight middle aged man because everyone could see my rugged good looks and finely tuned torso. Similarly Ems couldn't pretend to know everything there is to know about wine. She's only 11, so her field of specialist knowledge is alcopops!
I was sat opposite a chap who had brought his car round for us to buy some years ago. We ended up a few quid apart and sadly didn't get to own it but because there wasn't the clandestine cloak of forum anonymity we quickly established which car it was, why we didn't end up with the car, (he lent it to someone who sold it for him as a bit of a sideline to his main business) and rather than it turning all nasty we laughed it off and focussed on the fact his wife was still loving the car bought off us more recently!
For me by far the largest victim of forum anonymity next to civility is honesty. In all the years I've been posting on here I've yet to see a scoundrel truly exposed. I've been around for a little while now and have seen dealers come and go. I've seen scams that have stood the test of time and are still worked with great aplomb. I know of people who are owed tens of thousands of pounds by dealers and yet to read the forums butter wouldn't melt in their mouths and I've seen cars discussed that I would dearly love to wade in and slaughter but couldn't. I've also seen people hung out to dry unfairly.
I don't truly understand why anonymity on Internet forums works. I can only see the bad. A bit like CCTV the only people who suffer are those with something to hide. We often try to liken forums to the pub. Virtual pints are quaffed in a sea of witty banter but the truth is you haven't got a clue who your best buddy in the ether is. Down the pub I know who everyone is and can take what they say accordingly. Children are using their anonymous status to great advantage in a new wave of bullying and hatred. I know of someone who killed themselves partly spurred on by comments on this very forum. I'm not saying something wasn't amiss before they came on here but the fact is anonymity meant no one knew who they were and comments were made which wouldn't have been had we all been face to face. Would they still be around today? Who knows.
What I do know is that if everyone on here was accountable and open the gloves could come off with things like naming and shaming. Whilst many people come on here seeking advice the truth is they will often not get the real answer because typing it would contravene the naming & shaming rules. There are times when an even greater degree of anonymity steps in and personal emails start flying about, what lies are contained within one can only guess.
Well as I said at the start of my post apologies for the somewhat somber tone. Will things ever change? I hope so, but who knows?
In the meantime keep smiling.
Henry
This was the first forum I ever posted on. I didn't really understand how things worked but it seemed simple enough so just over 8 years ago I came aboard. Whilst I've now posted on several forums I've never really subscribed to the basic principles of Forums in terms of anonymity and typing shorthand. The former will, I fear, be the ultimate death of forums, the latter the potential death of civilised society. The day we all forget how to write the Queen's English in favour of forum shorthand is the day we die as a nation. My poor daughter must be the only 11 year old who BBMs in fully cohesive English because Dad makes her
With regards anonymity I've made sure on every forum I've ever posted on I have used my real name and told everyone who I am. The cynics on here will say it's because I'm only on here to milk the place dry in terms of publicity. I would argue more honourable motives. Many of my posts over the years have involved giving help or advice . It's why most people come on these places. They have a question, want to solve a problem or need to vent their spleen about something which has annoyed them. Now begins the problem of anonymity.
When asking a question it helps if you know something about the person giving an answer. Advice on how best to reassemble that Carrera GT engine in the front room would carry slightly more weight were it from a senior technician rather than a 14 year old school boy in his bedroom. The problem is Spannerman could be either.
As you head off backwards through your third hedge with Agnes' flannelette underpants somewhat obscuring your rearwards, which is now forwards, visibility and the rest of her washing line following on closely behind you might be questioning the driving advice kindly proffered by Fangio57. There is just an outside chance that he or she may not be the driving god everyone thinks them to be. Anonymity means you will never know.
Of late I've been renewing the acquaintance with my TIPEC regional membership. The first Tuesday of the month has seen me scoot up the M40 for a bite to eat and a bit of a natter. This week was the Christmas dinner and as the Missus dragged me away at just after 11 O'clock because Ems was at school the next day I couldn't help thinking I'd enjoyed myself. Where had the time gone? The conversation had flowed and civility was the order of the night because we all knew who everyone was. I couldn't claim to be some overweight middle aged man because everyone could see my rugged good looks and finely tuned torso. Similarly Ems couldn't pretend to know everything there is to know about wine. She's only 11, so her field of specialist knowledge is alcopops!
I was sat opposite a chap who had brought his car round for us to buy some years ago. We ended up a few quid apart and sadly didn't get to own it but because there wasn't the clandestine cloak of forum anonymity we quickly established which car it was, why we didn't end up with the car, (he lent it to someone who sold it for him as a bit of a sideline to his main business) and rather than it turning all nasty we laughed it off and focussed on the fact his wife was still loving the car bought off us more recently!
For me by far the largest victim of forum anonymity next to civility is honesty. In all the years I've been posting on here I've yet to see a scoundrel truly exposed. I've been around for a little while now and have seen dealers come and go. I've seen scams that have stood the test of time and are still worked with great aplomb. I know of people who are owed tens of thousands of pounds by dealers and yet to read the forums butter wouldn't melt in their mouths and I've seen cars discussed that I would dearly love to wade in and slaughter but couldn't. I've also seen people hung out to dry unfairly.
I don't truly understand why anonymity on Internet forums works. I can only see the bad. A bit like CCTV the only people who suffer are those with something to hide. We often try to liken forums to the pub. Virtual pints are quaffed in a sea of witty banter but the truth is you haven't got a clue who your best buddy in the ether is. Down the pub I know who everyone is and can take what they say accordingly. Children are using their anonymous status to great advantage in a new wave of bullying and hatred. I know of someone who killed themselves partly spurred on by comments on this very forum. I'm not saying something wasn't amiss before they came on here but the fact is anonymity meant no one knew who they were and comments were made which wouldn't have been had we all been face to face. Would they still be around today? Who knows.
What I do know is that if everyone on here was accountable and open the gloves could come off with things like naming and shaming. Whilst many people come on here seeking advice the truth is they will often not get the real answer because typing it would contravene the naming & shaming rules. There are times when an even greater degree of anonymity steps in and personal emails start flying about, what lies are contained within one can only guess.
Well as I said at the start of my post apologies for the somewhat somber tone. Will things ever change? I hope so, but who knows?
In the meantime keep smiling.
Henry
Intertesting, and a good idea, but you'd need some way of checking that people's real names / profiles etc are real and not fabricated. I know of at least one PHer (not on this section) who created an entire personality for himself to portray the person he wanted to be, not the person he was. I know about it becuase I had to fight very hard to get my money back once I discovered that he didn't have the skills he had claimed. Having met (and checked) him on line I had several hours of telephone conversations with him, before handing the money over, so I guess, unless you follow him home, the man in the pub could be missleading too
I have always assumed that anonymity is largely the product of the majority of those posting being employed and doing so whilst at work. It's hard to participate in a thread/conversation if you are not engaged in it in real time but many don't relish the prospect of their employer querying how much time they have spent with their noses somewhere other than in direct contact with the grindstone.
My first bulletin board was back in my Barchetta days in the late 90's and I recall that you received an e-mail each morining with all the posts that had been created in the previous 24hrs. It seemed to work back then but we were mostly anoymous even then.
My first bulletin board was back in my Barchetta days in the late 90's and I recall that you received an e-mail each morining with all the posts that had been created in the previous 24hrs. It seemed to work back then but we were mostly anoymous even then.
Edited by MogulBoy on Friday 9th December 11:10
quote
"and I've seen cars discussed that I would dearly love to wade in and slaughter but couldn't. "
people always make comments on cars, I would hope if I posted a car I was interested in and some one knew of a bad history they would PM me.
Forums are bad though, I went to look at JB's old car the orange RS but some one said it had been in a smash, some others said not, but that put me off going back to see it, and it may be a straight car, who knows.
I think people can always commnet on a car, just not slag off a company (seems strange why this is the case though, other forums are 100% open)
life goes on ,some people are crooks, buying cars has always been risky even from dealers, in fact I would say dealers are some times worse to buy a car from, as they just take any thing in part ex and then move it on, most dealers don't even check what you are giving them in any way.
And I know a lot of people who have had bad cars, who don't want to sell them private just part ex them to a dealer.
I guess this is why a lot of people buy new to rule out all the s
t.
I think now if I were buying off a dealer I would want the past owners telephone number to ring up asd ask the question, "is this car straight, now you have sold it on"
Not sure what a dealers stance on this would be though, because as soon as you have the V5 you can see the last owner and phone them, but it maybe to late by then.
Another thing which has happened over the last few years is Porsche's 2 year warranty on 2nd hand cars. This must have made people now think twice buying from a 3rd party dealer. It has for me, and I am the 1st person to question warrantys. And people like RSJ seem to have got it right, others should follow in their foot steps.
any way happy Xmax 911V and lets all hope for a better 2012.
"and I've seen cars discussed that I would dearly love to wade in and slaughter but couldn't. "
people always make comments on cars, I would hope if I posted a car I was interested in and some one knew of a bad history they would PM me.
Forums are bad though, I went to look at JB's old car the orange RS but some one said it had been in a smash, some others said not, but that put me off going back to see it, and it may be a straight car, who knows.
I think people can always commnet on a car, just not slag off a company (seems strange why this is the case though, other forums are 100% open)
life goes on ,some people are crooks, buying cars has always been risky even from dealers, in fact I would say dealers are some times worse to buy a car from, as they just take any thing in part ex and then move it on, most dealers don't even check what you are giving them in any way.
And I know a lot of people who have had bad cars, who don't want to sell them private just part ex them to a dealer.
I guess this is why a lot of people buy new to rule out all the s
t.I think now if I were buying off a dealer I would want the past owners telephone number to ring up asd ask the question, "is this car straight, now you have sold it on"
Not sure what a dealers stance on this would be though, because as soon as you have the V5 you can see the last owner and phone them, but it maybe to late by then.
Another thing which has happened over the last few years is Porsche's 2 year warranty on 2nd hand cars. This must have made people now think twice buying from a 3rd party dealer. It has for me, and I am the 1st person to question warrantys. And people like RSJ seem to have got it right, others should follow in their foot steps.
any way happy Xmax 911V and lets all hope for a better 2012.
Henry-F said:
Whilst I've now posted on several forums I've never really subscribed to the basic principles of Forums in terms of anonymity and typing shorthand. The former will, I fear, be the ultimate death of forums, the latter the potential death of civilised society.
Good points Henry.Since the advent of the innocent BBS (Bulletin Board System) c.20 years ago where many may remember different DOS-driven D&D-like online games, the social dynamic of internet forums has not changed much compared to the Knight/Ogre/Witch/Hero game characters [take your pick who you are]. Forums remain an unusual reflection of much pride, quiet subversion, occasional honesty, ignorance, scheming malice, and reflect both personal boredom and creativity. A tragic mix of the worst of humankind where there is gross intellect and little human bravery, opportunity for kindness or grace.
The Internet and anonymity allows all kinds of dreams and sins, the Porsche forum seemingly more so given the significant real-world human capital invested in peoples' P&Js. Sadly I have found that this last point can elicit both the best and worst of owners. Non-owners tend to speak more freely, but those whose capital is vested may take a different approach depending on their personal sensitivity to the threat of capital loss should market forces suggest.
Totally agree Henry, PH should put an end to anonymity. There are so many 'keyboard warriors' around (Although some are funny) that discussions end up being a total mess.
I dont hide who I am, you can see that in my profile. 'Molly' comes from my school nickname (Dont ask), and 'therocker' alludes to my guitar playing prowess.
Maybe we should start treating all anonymous posters as trolls and not respond to them?
Ive never met you Henry (Yet!), but I have never seen a bad word from you and I would wager that you are a proper bloke.
Keep smiling!
MTR
I dont hide who I am, you can see that in my profile. 'Molly' comes from my school nickname (Dont ask), and 'therocker' alludes to my guitar playing prowess.
Maybe we should start treating all anonymous posters as trolls and not respond to them?
Ive never met you Henry (Yet!), but I have never seen a bad word from you and I would wager that you are a proper bloke.
Keep smiling!
MTR
spareparts said:
Henry-F said:
Whilst I've now posted on several forums I've never really subscribed to the basic principles of Forums in terms of anonymity and typing shorthand. The former will, I fear, be the ultimate death of forums, the latter the potential death of civilised society.
Well said Henry - between this and some people issuing nothing more than argumentative, condescending posts (Most of which essentially say, or repeat, 'I appreciate your opinion, but you're wrong' almost all the time) the forum can make you despair for society as a whole. As is always the case it's 'the few not the many' but you still wonder what motivates them to be so negative.PS. I'm always
ingmollytherocker said:
Totally agree Henry, PH should put an end to anonymity. There are so many 'keyboard warriors' around (Although some are funny) that discussions end up being a total mess.
I dont hide who I am, you can see that in my profile. 'Molly' comes from my school nickname (Dont ask), and 'therocker' alludes to my guitar playing prowess.
Maybe we should start treating all anonymous posters as trolls and not respond to them?
Ive never met you Henry (Yet!), but I have never seen a bad word from you and I would wager that you are a proper bloke.
Keep smiling!
MTR
+1 Molly and many others sound like a decent blokes too, though I've not met any of you! The 'Wider forum', however, is a dangerous place to set foot...I dont hide who I am, you can see that in my profile. 'Molly' comes from my school nickname (Dont ask), and 'therocker' alludes to my guitar playing prowess.
Maybe we should start treating all anonymous posters as trolls and not respond to them?
Ive never met you Henry (Yet!), but I have never seen a bad word from you and I would wager that you are a proper bloke.
Keep smiling!
MTR
Sometimes anonymity suits me, not because I am up to anything bad, but because I am looking to invest a lot of money in a car, and want to elicit free and open responses without giving too much away pre-negotiation to vendors. But I agree normally there should be no need for it, unless you are a troll.
..i do think a lot of the posting does sometimes get a bit ott however in general its mainly harmless banter and should be treated as such.
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