My old Passat vs slightly newer 320d touring (sad I know)
Discussion
Following the article in this months EVO mag about petrol v Diesel and roll on acceleration tests, I did mine this morning on a nearby dualcarriageway. Following a typically aggressively driven 57 plate (163 PS) 320 d touring onto a dual carriageway at about 30 MPH, I shifted down to 2nd and nailed it. Who would be quickest? The car with massively more torque, or the 110k mile Passat with a very marginally better unladen power to weight ratio?
Well as we set off at a gallop, Mr BMW was really trying, as witnessed by plumes of smoke coming from his exhaust! I was nailed to his bumper till I hit the red line in 2nd, then as I changed up he pulled out half a car length, but once into 3rd, I clearly had the advantage again as I closed the gap. He had to change to 4th as I wrung out 3rd gear and basically had to acquiese and move over for me. Now that I didnt expect,but it does prove that a properly driven old petrol car can give a modern super torque diesel a very hard time!
I know some of you will be groaning at how sad this thread is, but hey, I have to have SOME fun in the boring family wagon!!
Well as we set off at a gallop, Mr BMW was really trying, as witnessed by plumes of smoke coming from his exhaust! I was nailed to his bumper till I hit the red line in 2nd, then as I changed up he pulled out half a car length, but once into 3rd, I clearly had the advantage again as I closed the gap. He had to change to 4th as I wrung out 3rd gear and basically had to acquiese and move over for me. Now that I didnt expect,but it does prove that a properly driven old petrol car can give a modern super torque diesel a very hard time!
I know some of you will be groaning at how sad this thread is, but hey, I have to have SOME fun in the boring family wagon!!
StevieB said:
Following the article in this months EVO mag about petrol v Diesel and roll on acceleration tests, I did mine this morning on a nearby dualcarriageway. Following a typically aggressively driven 57 plate (163 PS) 320 d touring onto a dual carriageway at about 30 MPH, I shifted down to 2nd and nailed it. Who would be quickest? The car with massively more torque, or the 110k mile Passat with a very marginally better unladen power to weight ratio?
Well as we set off at a gallop, Mr BMW was really trying, as witnessed by plumes of smoke coming from his exhaust! I was nailed to his bumper till I hit the red line in 2nd, then as I changed up he pulled out half a car length, but once into 3rd, I clearly had the advantage again as I closed the gap. He had to change to 4th as I wrung out 3rd gear and basically had to acquiese and move over for me. Now that I didnt expect,but it does prove that a properly driven old petrol car can give a modern super torque diesel a very hard time!
I know some of you will be groaning at how sad this thread is, but hey, I have to have SOME fun in the boring family wagon!!
1.8T 20V? Good engine thoseWell as we set off at a gallop, Mr BMW was really trying, as witnessed by plumes of smoke coming from his exhaust! I was nailed to his bumper till I hit the red line in 2nd, then as I changed up he pulled out half a car length, but once into 3rd, I clearly had the advantage again as I closed the gap. He had to change to 4th as I wrung out 3rd gear and basically had to acquiese and move over for me. Now that I didnt expect,but it does prove that a properly driven old petrol car can give a modern super torque diesel a very hard time!
I know some of you will be groaning at how sad this thread is, but hey, I have to have SOME fun in the boring family wagon!!
And then, guess what happened........
your alarm clock went off, and you woke up
.
Your "tale", proves the diesel point, to get anywhere near a std diesel, with the similarly powered petrol car, in gears, you have to rag the bottom off it, and get about 4mpg, in the process
I have both 1.8T petrol, and 140bhp diesel VW, and, mid range the petrol is left in the diesels wake most times, make the diesel the 160 bhp BMW, and the margins are even greater, because for all the faults/prejudices, the BM's tend too atract, they do tend to produce/exceed the figures they quote.
But the crux here, is that the petrol was being hammered, to keep up with the lazy diesel. It's what they are good at, they are however bad at most other things, which is why, at next car change, it might be a return to the petrol fold for me.
your alarm clock went off, and you woke up
.Your "tale", proves the diesel point, to get anywhere near a std diesel, with the similarly powered petrol car, in gears, you have to rag the bottom off it, and get about 4mpg, in the process
I have both 1.8T petrol, and 140bhp diesel VW, and, mid range the petrol is left in the diesels wake most times, make the diesel the 160 bhp BMW, and the margins are even greater, because for all the faults/prejudices, the BM's tend too atract, they do tend to produce/exceed the figures they quote.
But the crux here, is that the petrol was being hammered, to keep up with the lazy diesel. It's what they are good at, they are however bad at most other things, which is why, at next car change, it might be a return to the petrol fold for me.
icepop said:
But the crux here, is that the petrol was being hammered, to keep up with the lazy diesel.
Both engines are running at maximum power, yet only one is being 'hammered'?This sort of viewpoint is the like adopted by swathes of people who can't tell the difference between engine speed and vehicle speed. Or those who believe diesels are better 'in the real world' because in the real world that they live in they are incapable of extracting maximum power from their petrol engine.
+ there's nothing wrong with diesels etc., but some of the associated tripe rankles my ankles.
Edited by TheInternet on Saturday 10th December 23:13
Edited by TheInternet on Saturday 10th December 23:16
icepop said:
And then, guess what happened........
your alarm clock went off, and you woke up.
Your "tale", proves the diesel point, to get anywhere near a std diesel, with the similarly powered petrol car, in gears, you have to rag the bottom off it, and get about 4mpg, in the process
I have both 1.8T petrol, and 140bhp diesel VW, and, mid range the petrol is left in the diesels wake most times, make the diesel the 160 bhp BMW, and the margins are even greater, because for all the faults/prejudices, the BM's tend too atract, they do tend to produce/exceed the figures they quote.
But the crux here, is that the petrol was being hammered, to keep up with the lazy diesel. It's what they are good at, they are however bad at most other things, which is why, at next car change, it might be a return to the petrol fold for me.
I'm sorry but you talk some utter drivel.your alarm clock went off, and you woke up
.Your "tale", proves the diesel point, to get anywhere near a std diesel, with the similarly powered petrol car, in gears, you have to rag the bottom off it, and get about 4mpg, in the process
I have both 1.8T petrol, and 140bhp diesel VW, and, mid range the petrol is left in the diesels wake most times, make the diesel the 160 bhp BMW, and the margins are even greater, because for all the faults/prejudices, the BM's tend too atract, they do tend to produce/exceed the figures they quote.
But the crux here, is that the petrol was being hammered, to keep up with the lazy diesel. It's what they are good at, they are however bad at most other things, which is why, at next car change, it might be a return to the petrol fold for me.
And yes I own a diesel.
The Internet,
One engine was at max power, the other was at max torque, that's the difference. I'm not doing the petrol down, just that it did sound from the OP's description, he did sound like he was ragging the petrol to keep up with the oil burner, and that's what I've found in similar conditions.
Can't argue with that detailed reply though, I'll get me coat.
One engine was at max power, the other was at max torque, that's the difference. I'm not doing the petrol down, just that it did sound from the OP's description, he did sound like he was ragging the petrol to keep up with the oil burner, and that's what I've found in similar conditions.
k15tox said:
I'm sorry but you talk some utter drivel.
And yes I own a diesel.
An apology, and a confession, in one go.And yes I own a diesel.
Can't argue with that detailed reply though, I'll get me coat.
icepop said:
The Internet,
One engine was at max power, the other was at max torque, that's the difference. I'm not doing the petrol down, just that it did sound from the OP's description, he did sound like he was ragging the petrol to keep up with the oil burner, and that's what I've found in similar conditions.
Can't argue with that detailed reply though, I'll get me coat.
So let's say for instance the diesel makes peak power at 4k. The petrol 6k. You take the diesel up to 4k you are ragging it. If he dropped the passat down a gear, say to 4k revs he will have been not far off peak torque, then torque will drop slowly drop of as he approaches peak power which is another 2000 rpm off.One engine was at max power, the other was at max torque, that's the difference. I'm not doing the petrol down, just that it did sound from the OP's description, he did sound like he was ragging the petrol to keep up with the oil burner, and that's what I've found in similar conditions.
k15tox said:
I'm sorry but you talk some utter drivel.
And yes I own a diesel.
An apology, and a confession, in one go.And yes I own a diesel.
Can't argue with that detailed reply though, I'll get me coat.
A diesel has a narrow power band, this is resolved by gearing it allot lower. Bmw would have been in 3rd passat 2nd. Great things these gearboxes.
To say the diesel wasn't being ragged because it revs lower is foolish
Edited by k15tox on Saturday 10th December 23:59
Edited by k15tox on Sunday 11th December 00:03
Max_Torque said:
So a slow, not very powerful diesel is similar in performance to a slow and not very powerful petrol, wow, who'd have thought it................
Precisely.But wait a minute....this can't be true.
The diesel has loads and loads of torques and the barry forum keeps telling me this makes cars really really fast.
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