New Injector Dynamics ID1000s
Discussion
Im moving over to Injector Dynamics ID1000s from some old Bosch Motorsport injectors:
http://www.injectordynamics.com/ID1000.html
I'm using MoTeC M600 and could do with some advice on configuring the ECU.
What Injector Current and Peak Hold Ratio do I use?
http://www.injectordynamics.com/ID1000.html
I'm using MoTeC M600 and could do with some advice on configuring the ECU.
What Injector Current and Peak Hold Ratio do I use?
They are easy to setup, they will come with a table of values for dead times (battery voltage compensation) which you input into the ECU settings as a 2d table i.e. dead time against battery voltage. They are high impedance so injector current is set to zero, peak hold ratio is no longer relevant.
Vixpy1 said:
Good injectors those
we use 20 ID2000s on RV3..
Oh, and if you want some VERY good advice, contact Shane Tecklenburg, he's listed on IDs "Badass" page...
http://www.injectordynamics.com/badasses.html
Max_Torque said:
Jeez, i'm amazed there is enough space left on the internet after the ID guys ego's have been crammed in! It's just a fuel injector guys, it ain't exactly rocket science now is it ! ;-)
You'd be surprised.. I know what field you're in, but when you get to the ridiculous end of the scale, there's some absolute crap out there, and ID do some very special things..OK, next set of stupid questions:
1) If the car was run having moved from low impedance injectors to high impedance injectors without changing the ecu injector type to 12/14 i.e. high impedance is that likely to cause any damage? I guess other way round is worse...
2) On the battery comp settings, using Volts and Fuel Pressure as a 3D comp. table, given the car is boosted (lets say 5bar static FP and up to 2bar boost) is the FP axis on the comp table absolute fuel pressure or differential FP i.e. only the boost part (0-2bar)?
<end of stupid questions>
1) If the car was run having moved from low impedance injectors to high impedance injectors without changing the ecu injector type to 12/14 i.e. high impedance is that likely to cause any damage? I guess other way round is worse...
2) On the battery comp settings, using Volts and Fuel Pressure as a 3D comp. table, given the car is boosted (lets say 5bar static FP and up to 2bar boost) is the FP axis on the comp table absolute fuel pressure or differential FP i.e. only the boost part (0-2bar)?
<end of stupid questions>
Generally speaking, at high boost pressures when you might start to see changes in the Injector delta pressure, the pulse widths are so long that the dead time is a very minor effect. Most aftermarket engine controller maps i have seen struggle to get the base fuelling repeatable within 5%, let alone the less than 1% caused by changing dead times with IJdP ! Unless you are running with super high IJdP's that are getting close to the dynamic limit of the injector coil and pintle, then there is probably no great need to map vs Volts AND injector DP. (you also need to calculate IJdP, by subtracting fuel rail pressure from MAP) In top of which, the standing waves and pressure harmonics in your fuel rail can be as high as 10% of the static pressure, and these change with load and speed !
Ultra Violent said:
Makes things easier but it seems odd looking at their data.
So I use the FP static rating of the FPR as the reference? In my case 5bar? The injectors are referenced to 3bar (I believe) and have different comp as a result?
Yes, its the static fuel pressure that you need as your reference, I got mine by pulling the vacuum line off the fuel pressure regulator and taking the reading off the fuel pressure gauge. Not sure on the injector reference? But all you need are the dead time values at the static fuel pressure tabled against battery voltage and you should be good to go. Your fuel map may need a little work after you have trimmed it to get it perfect, but for now mine is just adjusted using the trim function until I get to the dyno.So I use the FP static rating of the FPR as the reference? In my case 5bar? The injectors are referenced to 3bar (I believe) and have different comp as a result?
The simple fact of the matter is that actually, if you have an simple EMS system that is mapped in injector duration (ms) then you could put zero in the deadtime maps and it would still work. This is because your main mapping includes most injector effects, because the way you do it is to simply change the pulsewidth untill you get the fuel you want. Hence, things like load/speed dependant injector delta pressure are already compensated for (obviously assumes you have a fairy repeatable battery voltage and fuel pump/ reg characteristic) Deadtime et al only really matter when you move to a airflow / lambda based system were you use an injector characterisic to look up a suitable injector duration to deliver the AFR you need.
( A more OEM EMS will measure intake mass flow, correct for manifold filling and pressure reversals, (or use tabulated volumetric efficiency vs MAP) then use a target AFR table to get to a fuel mass, then use the injector characteristic and the current battV and IJDP to calculate a suitable duration including the deadtime.)
( A more OEM EMS will measure intake mass flow, correct for manifold filling and pressure reversals, (or use tabulated volumetric efficiency vs MAP) then use a target AFR table to get to a fuel mass, then use the injector characteristic and the current battV and IJDP to calculate a suitable duration including the deadtime.)
Max_Torque said:
The simple fact of the matter is that actually, if you have an simple EMS system that is mapped in injector duration (ms) then you could put zero in the deadtime maps and it would still work. This is because your main mapping includes most injector effects, because the way you do it is to simply change the pulsewidth untill you get the fuel you want. Hence, things like load/speed dependant injector delta pressure are already compensated for (obviously assumes you have a fairy repeatable battery voltage and fuel pump/ reg characteristic) Deadtime et al only really matter when you move to a airflow / lambda based system were you use an injector characterisic to look up a suitable injector duration to deliver the AFR you need.
( A more OEM EMS will measure intake mass flow, correct for manifold filling and pressure reversals, (or use tabulated volumetric efficiency vs MAP) then use a target AFR table to get to a fuel mass, then use the injector characteristic and the current battV and IJDP to calculate a suitable duration including the deadtime.)
The simple approach....just how I do it lol. Cant say Ive ever filled in a dead time table( A more OEM EMS will measure intake mass flow, correct for manifold filling and pressure reversals, (or use tabulated volumetric efficiency vs MAP) then use a target AFR table to get to a fuel mass, then use the injector characteristic and the current battV and IJDP to calculate a suitable duration including the deadtime.)
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