LS3 Chev best tuner.
Discussion
Im leaning away from doing too much end to end tunes as it takes up mega time to do it properly and that, I dont have.
That being said MF dont actually tune anything. Paul at Wortec does the tunes. But if you have a standard install using all the usual bits then its likely he will have a baseline that wont cost you an arm and a leg.
If its custom with custom cam etc, then expect to pay a fair bit for a decent job.
Im happy to get people started on tuning their own gear and provide assistance on an ongoing basis, but end to end customer tunes are not viable time-wise.
That being said MF dont actually tune anything. Paul at Wortec does the tunes. But if you have a standard install using all the usual bits then its likely he will have a baseline that wont cost you an arm and a leg.
If its custom with custom cam etc, then expect to pay a fair bit for a decent job.
Im happy to get people started on tuning their own gear and provide assistance on an ongoing basis, but end to end customer tunes are not viable time-wise.
Thought I would show this to a wider spectrum, I am a little concerned that I am doing terminal damage to my engine. Just thought there may be some techies on here who can throw a little light on the subject, there may be a few who will have seen this on another forum.
Please look at this Dyno read out and give me your thoughts: It's the AFR I am concened about as I know very little about this sort of thing. Thanks in anticipation.
Please look at this Dyno read out and give me your thoughts: It's the AFR I am concened about as I know very little about this sort of thing. Thanks in anticipation.
stevieturbo said:
Is the car as it came from the factory ? Is it modified in any way ? ( SC install aside of course, as this was sold as an end user package )
The car started life as a Bathurst from new (could not find a Bathurst S at the time) so had all the WP add on brakes, suspension etc. I took the car directley to Picador in Southampton and they fitted full headers and switchable exhaust, cold air intake, LS7 clutch, can pack (Monkfish Magic) and was mapped to suit.I then was in a bit of a quandry on whether to sell it as I was looking for a different toy but no takers so decided to upgrade to a S/Charger, the right way for me to go was back to WP as it could be upgraded to a genuine "S" to keep some future value (I hope). Sorted out a price with WP for the latest S/Charger and droped the car off for the work to be done. They did all the install including a custom map from Auss to suit what had been done to the car, picked it up and "wow" it is mind blowing, what a toy.
Anyway the offer poped up on PH to go to SRR and have it put on the Dyno which is why I ask the question, Charlie thinks bigger injectors so I sent the results to WP and they have sent them to WP in Auss for a new map to be written (think thats what I mean), WP UK think it needs a bigger pump and map so this is where I am at present. WP are being very helpfull and did suggest it may need a bigger pump which I took on board and I am very happy with that.
I ask the question as I know very little about this set up and was hoping that I may dig up some info from one of you "guru techies" on here.
WP have done a fantastic job and looked after me very well,
just a bit of a pain over the holiday period to not have answers which is of course not there fault, I think it's me trying to run before I can walk if you know what I mean. 
I want it 100% as the last thing I need is a blown piston or two and am happy to spend the money to get it right, so I just have to wait for WP to get some results back, I have every faith in them.
I hope you all have a great new year and we can all keep smiling.
Boosted LS1 said:
There should be some peace of mind for you if the knock sensors are switched on as these will retard spark and help prevent detonation. I think they're very useful given these engines can be a bit fragile.
OK, so it may not die of detonation, but as the EGT goes through the roof (lean + retard!) it will just drop an exhaust valve instead................I would be a bit nervious of any tuner "thinking" something. Prove what is wrong and fix that, do not just randomly change stuff!
1) A simple handheld scope (or even a multimeter with a duty cycle setting, availible for about £20 on ebay!) will tell you if your injectors are reaching their maximum capability.
2) Sticking a fuel pressure gauge on the rail and monitoring fuel rail pressure will tell you if your fuel pump is reaching it's maximum capability.
A tuner that couldn't do either of those most basic of things would not be getting near any car I owned!!!
I'm not sure why any of this should be remotely complicated for a tuner who knows what they're doing. Running the numbers at 650 bhp which is where you probably should be if the A/F ratio was correct you need at least 500cc/min injectors for an 85% duty cycle and at least 6 pints per minute from the fuel pump, preferably a good bit more to give a safety factor so ideally 7 pints plus. In fact a 50% safety margin from a fuel pump is never a bad thing to cope with wear or blocked fuel filters so call it 9 pints per minute.
The injector code embossed in the plastic on them will enable you to look up the flow rating from numerous online websites or the manufacturer's catalogue.
The specs for your fuel pump should be similarly easily obtainable.
10 minutes reading off the part numbers and then a bit of googling and you'll know which parts are causing the problem.
Fuel lines might also need enlarging if it's them and not the pump causing a restriction.
The injector code embossed in the plastic on them will enable you to look up the flow rating from numerous online websites or the manufacturer's catalogue.
The specs for your fuel pump should be similarly easily obtainable.
10 minutes reading off the part numbers and then a bit of googling and you'll know which parts are causing the problem.
Fuel lines might also need enlarging if it's them and not the pump causing a restriction.
Pumaracing said:
I'm not sure why any of this should be remotely complicated for a tuner who knows what they're doing.
His post clearly shows the problem.WP are not mapping the car. They are relying on someone in Australia to send them ecu files to flash in.
If the people who proclaim to be tuning the car cannot even remap an ecu, clearly you shouldnt be going anywhere near them !!
There are far far far too many people alleging to be tuners who havent the first notion about either how an engine works, or how to tune one.
And there should be no thinking involved. Even a dumbass with a multimeter can measure injector duty cycles.
Even a dumbass could monitor fuel pressure to see if the pump is adequate.
These two aspects either need upgraded, or they dont. There is no thinking.
Edited by stevieturbo on Monday 2nd January 13:04
Pumaracing said:
I'm not sure why any of this should be remotely complicated for a tuner who knows what they're doing. Running the numbers at 650 bhp which is where you probably should be if the A/F ratio was correct you need at least 500cc/min injectors for an 85% duty cycle and at least 6 pints per minute from the fuel pump, preferably a good bit more to give a safety factor so ideally 7 pints plus. In fact a 50% safety margin from a fuel pump is never a bad thing to cope with wear or blocked fuel filters so call it 9 pints per minute.
Can someone please write an app that automatically converts Puma's posts into SI units? Pints per minute? Blimey, does your milkman deliver your fuel too??
Max_Torque said:
Can someone please write an app that automatically converts Puma's posts into SI units?
Pints per minute? Blimey, does your milkman deliver your fuel too??
Hmmmpf. My posts are already in SI units. Super Intelligent units Pints per minute? Blimey, does your milkman deliver your fuel too??
However for the imperially challenged 9 pints per minute is 2.69 litres per micro year.
8-9 years ago when I joined this forum there were "tuners" blindly fitting parts to cars, including superchargers who had not even the first notion about reprogramming the ecu afterwards.
One even fitted larger injectors then removed them because the engine wouldnt run properly !! Like WTF !
It almost defies belief that after all that time, there are still people working at these same engines, blindly bolting on supercharger kits, without offering any proper support for them afterwards.
Relying on somewhere thousands of miles away just seems incredible, especially for such a basic query.
Find a local tuner with a brain, who can conduct some very basic checks to see exactly where you stand. Either with your fuel system, or if perhaps there is just a simple problem, or if it perhaps just needs a proper map done.
Although I guess that was the original question. Just drive normally until it is resolved, and dont be pushing it hard.
Monkfish is one option.
The likes of Torque Developments would have more tuning knowledge than most, although not sure if they have done much LS work.
Although this isnt an LS specific issue. It's a very basic tuning issue regardless of engine.
One even fitted larger injectors then removed them because the engine wouldnt run properly !! Like WTF !
It almost defies belief that after all that time, there are still people working at these same engines, blindly bolting on supercharger kits, without offering any proper support for them afterwards.
Relying on somewhere thousands of miles away just seems incredible, especially for such a basic query.
Find a local tuner with a brain, who can conduct some very basic checks to see exactly where you stand. Either with your fuel system, or if perhaps there is just a simple problem, or if it perhaps just needs a proper map done.
Although I guess that was the original question. Just drive normally until it is resolved, and dont be pushing it hard.
Monkfish is one option.
The likes of Torque Developments would have more tuning knowledge than most, although not sure if they have done much LS work.
Although this isnt an LS specific issue. It's a very basic tuning issue regardless of engine.
Monkfish? Who TF would ever call a tuning company Monkfish? That to me says either the deranged police inspector from the Fast Show or a horrible looking deep sea angler fish. As for Torque Developments, way back when in the 90s or maybe even 80s, I forget, they offered something for Vauxhall Astra GTEs they claimed delivered "better throttle response" or something like that but steered away from claims it actually delivered more horsepower.
Dave Walker of Emerald finally got to the bottom of it for me when he visited them. It was just a revised throttle linkage that produced more butterfly movement from a given throttle pedal movement. So the terminally stupid thought they were going faster from a smaller throttle pedal depression but at full throttle nothing changed. The engine was the same, the power was the same but you jerked the car around a lot more with small throttle pedal movements. At that point I decided they were charlatans of the highest water and refused to have anything to do with them ever again.
Maybe they're better now but old horror stories die hard. I'd recommend someone else.
Dave Walker of Emerald finally got to the bottom of it for me when he visited them. It was just a revised throttle linkage that produced more butterfly movement from a given throttle pedal movement. So the terminally stupid thought they were going faster from a smaller throttle pedal depression but at full throttle nothing changed. The engine was the same, the power was the same but you jerked the car around a lot more with small throttle pedal movements. At that point I decided they were charlatans of the highest water and refused to have anything to do with them ever again.
Maybe they're better now but old horror stories die hard. I'd recommend someone else.
Edited by Pumaracing on Tuesday 3rd January 11:23
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