Could this be an economic solution for us for the future?
Discussion
Your ridicule and support is anticipated and for all legal reasons, the below idea is the IP of Bobby: an Indian immigrant to the UK who is now British and full member of the CommonSense party.
So here is my contribution to the UK as a rough Idea due to the brilliant Scotch Whisky of last night.
Solution for UK economic conditions and future competitiveness:
Aim: to resolve uk housing, child care and employment problems via BIK tax policy and minimum wage policy.
Idea: allow all employers to pay housing, child care and travel allowance or provision of accommodation, child care and travel facilities to a set individial limit which will be tax free in return for minimum wage abolition.
Effect:
A.All employers now have fixed costs on hiring low/medium skill workers with uniform housing, child care and travel facilities/allowance + variable costs of wages.
B.The overall wage cost will be lower compared to current levels which will make mass employment in all sectors profitable by reducing overall cost of production.
C.The standard of living remains high due to housing, child care and travel being provided by employer rather than high wages, high taxation for public services, high child care costs, high travel costs and high housing costs as of now.
D.Medium skills and high skills manufacturing and services will remain in UK and will be competitive in comparison to developing countries due to disparity in wages and standard of living.
E.Direct flow of public sector and private sector money to create large scale transportation, housing and child care service industries.
You cannot make underwear, shirts and trousers in the UK in competition with India and china. But you can make high quality/design coats, jackets, shoes, hats that will be price competitive and a premium product which emerging economies will consume due to it being ‘made in UK’ rather than made in china.
You cannot make cycles to compete with china…but you can make high end cycling sports equipment to supply the world from the UK
You cannot make 50cc mopeds to compete with china…but you can make top spec UK bikes that will sell all over the world at competitive prices.
Same applies for catering, medical, police, emergency, military, construction workers, artists, youth organisations, sports clubs, carpenters, trainees and apprentices. All low paid and struggling now but able to enjoy a decent standard of living at lower wages in future.
Across the board in all walks of life, housing, child care and travel becomes affordable for the worker, cost of production becomes lower, mass employment is encouraged over benefits. Infrastructure and housing construction gets a revival and modernisation all over the UK gets started for the next 20-30 yrs.
Employers have a lower taxation burden, govt has lower welfare costs and benefits can now truly become a safety net!!!!
The harder you work, the higher your income, you can then buy your own home, flat screen tv, holidays and cars easier as GBP gets stronger in future but cost of production in UK is competitive with emerging economies. Our workforce in various different industries in manufacturing, leisure, services, infrastructure, technology all become happier and compete internationally on price.
Suddenly the taxes we pay are utilised for our benefit. And we as a nation become competitive again. Add to that the ability of public services to fund private sector provision of youth clubs, gyms, sports facilities, arts programmes all to develop our young people and provide employment to people who wish to work in those avenues at a lower cost overall and higher standard of living. The taxes can now be concentrated on direct provision of law and order, disability, health care and retirement care…again at a lower cost to the taxpayer and higher standard of living for the workers!!!
Problems within the idea to be resolved by Govt policy:
1.The government needs to stick to minimum housing standards (no. of rooms, area per type of room, gardens, parking, in house connectivity, energy efficiency, security and safety) when allowing mass construction.
2.Design variations, size variations and most modern construction techniques must be a condition to prevent the deterioration of the future landscape look and feel and provide a higher standard of living.
3.The govt needs to have a policy of recycling the large scale private developments from buy to let businesses to individual ownership which will be key to the idea and the future of British home ownership for the hard working individuals and families in the meduim and long term.
4.The government must ensure land allocation on a build now… pay on sale basis to reflect funding issues for developers.
5.The government must ensure low intial purchase price by specifying a sale price per area policy to allow builders to compete and supply at lower prices and restrict housing price bubbles at the starting point and lower prices for sales in secondary property markets for individual ownership.
6.Roads, water, connectivity and public spaces must all form part of the design for initial build tenders.
7.Proper planning of phasing in the taxation & employment policy in tandem to performance in construction sector.
8.Govt must implement proper wage negotiation practices to prevent abuse.
Total Cost to taxpayer: BIK taxation free limits for PAYE & ER.NI, abolishment of minimum wage, tax free allowance revision upwards.
Questions this idea aims to answer:
1.Would you work for a lower tax free wage+benefits package when it comes to current low paid jobs?
2.Would this solve our culture of benefit dependency and lack of aspiration?
3.Would this increase our price competitiveness and prevent the loss of low/medium skills work to emerging economies?
4.Would this increase our pride in being British workers compared to other workforces around the world?
That was some good s
t last night!
Feel free to do your own fag packet calculations and see if you agree.
So here is my contribution to the UK as a rough Idea due to the brilliant Scotch Whisky of last night.
Solution for UK economic conditions and future competitiveness:
Aim: to resolve uk housing, child care and employment problems via BIK tax policy and minimum wage policy.
Idea: allow all employers to pay housing, child care and travel allowance or provision of accommodation, child care and travel facilities to a set individial limit which will be tax free in return for minimum wage abolition.
Effect:
A.All employers now have fixed costs on hiring low/medium skill workers with uniform housing, child care and travel facilities/allowance + variable costs of wages.
B.The overall wage cost will be lower compared to current levels which will make mass employment in all sectors profitable by reducing overall cost of production.
C.The standard of living remains high due to housing, child care and travel being provided by employer rather than high wages, high taxation for public services, high child care costs, high travel costs and high housing costs as of now.
D.Medium skills and high skills manufacturing and services will remain in UK and will be competitive in comparison to developing countries due to disparity in wages and standard of living.
E.Direct flow of public sector and private sector money to create large scale transportation, housing and child care service industries.
You cannot make underwear, shirts and trousers in the UK in competition with India and china. But you can make high quality/design coats, jackets, shoes, hats that will be price competitive and a premium product which emerging economies will consume due to it being ‘made in UK’ rather than made in china.
You cannot make cycles to compete with china…but you can make high end cycling sports equipment to supply the world from the UK
You cannot make 50cc mopeds to compete with china…but you can make top spec UK bikes that will sell all over the world at competitive prices.
Same applies for catering, medical, police, emergency, military, construction workers, artists, youth organisations, sports clubs, carpenters, trainees and apprentices. All low paid and struggling now but able to enjoy a decent standard of living at lower wages in future.
Across the board in all walks of life, housing, child care and travel becomes affordable for the worker, cost of production becomes lower, mass employment is encouraged over benefits. Infrastructure and housing construction gets a revival and modernisation all over the UK gets started for the next 20-30 yrs.
Employers have a lower taxation burden, govt has lower welfare costs and benefits can now truly become a safety net!!!!
The harder you work, the higher your income, you can then buy your own home, flat screen tv, holidays and cars easier as GBP gets stronger in future but cost of production in UK is competitive with emerging economies. Our workforce in various different industries in manufacturing, leisure, services, infrastructure, technology all become happier and compete internationally on price.
Suddenly the taxes we pay are utilised for our benefit. And we as a nation become competitive again. Add to that the ability of public services to fund private sector provision of youth clubs, gyms, sports facilities, arts programmes all to develop our young people and provide employment to people who wish to work in those avenues at a lower cost overall and higher standard of living. The taxes can now be concentrated on direct provision of law and order, disability, health care and retirement care…again at a lower cost to the taxpayer and higher standard of living for the workers!!!
Problems within the idea to be resolved by Govt policy:
1.The government needs to stick to minimum housing standards (no. of rooms, area per type of room, gardens, parking, in house connectivity, energy efficiency, security and safety) when allowing mass construction.
2.Design variations, size variations and most modern construction techniques must be a condition to prevent the deterioration of the future landscape look and feel and provide a higher standard of living.
3.The govt needs to have a policy of recycling the large scale private developments from buy to let businesses to individual ownership which will be key to the idea and the future of British home ownership for the hard working individuals and families in the meduim and long term.
4.The government must ensure land allocation on a build now… pay on sale basis to reflect funding issues for developers.
5.The government must ensure low intial purchase price by specifying a sale price per area policy to allow builders to compete and supply at lower prices and restrict housing price bubbles at the starting point and lower prices for sales in secondary property markets for individual ownership.
6.Roads, water, connectivity and public spaces must all form part of the design for initial build tenders.
7.Proper planning of phasing in the taxation & employment policy in tandem to performance in construction sector.
8.Govt must implement proper wage negotiation practices to prevent abuse.
Total Cost to taxpayer: BIK taxation free limits for PAYE & ER.NI, abolishment of minimum wage, tax free allowance revision upwards.
Questions this idea aims to answer:
1.Would you work for a lower tax free wage+benefits package when it comes to current low paid jobs?
2.Would this solve our culture of benefit dependency and lack of aspiration?
3.Would this increase our price competitiveness and prevent the loss of low/medium skills work to emerging economies?
4.Would this increase our pride in being British workers compared to other workforces around the world?
That was some good s
t last night! Feel free to do your own fag packet calculations and see if you agree.I think the ONE thing that is most concerning for me is childcare. It has become so that both parents in a modern family must work to provide a decent living for themselves. unfortunately the additional cost of this is childcare. It is a limiting factor, work full time and see your income depleted by childcare costs or work part time, reducing the childcare costs but ending up earning less in the first place. The argument is that full time working can leave you no better off than part time work. Surely we need to get to a situation where full-time employment is available and cost-effective for all. The provision of quality not-for-profit childcare would be ideal, perhaps even a route for better education and social care of children from an early age, removing a barrier for those that want to work more, removing the excuse for those that don't and perhaps taking children out of harmful environments in some cases.
Working that alongside shift work and varying schedules would be tricky though.
Maybe education and mentoring from day one to 16 years of age, when parents are working the system takes over, children never left idle. I like the idea of the workplace being a community too, for example many Japanese companies offer so much more than a wage, such as purpose, solidarity and wellbeing, where they are not working to live or living to work but in a lot of cases living and working are the same thing.
The argument is whether we'd become slaves to industry or whether we'd become stakeholders in industry.
Re the quality products - yeah the Brits are already on with making quality products in the motorcycle industry for example. It's what the Japs and Germans do best. More of the same would be nice, again helping to make working more enjoyable, instilling a sense of pride in the workforce.
I am rambling now and I haven't had any alcohol!
Working that alongside shift work and varying schedules would be tricky though.
Maybe education and mentoring from day one to 16 years of age, when parents are working the system takes over, children never left idle. I like the idea of the workplace being a community too, for example many Japanese companies offer so much more than a wage, such as purpose, solidarity and wellbeing, where they are not working to live or living to work but in a lot of cases living and working are the same thing.
The argument is whether we'd become slaves to industry or whether we'd become stakeholders in industry.
Re the quality products - yeah the Brits are already on with making quality products in the motorcycle industry for example. It's what the Japs and Germans do best. More of the same would be nice, again helping to make working more enjoyable, instilling a sense of pride in the workforce.
I am rambling now and I haven't had any alcohol!
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Question for you sir: IF you or your spouse had child care facility provided by your employer during your work hours or a tax free allowance to cater for it in exchange for a low tax lowerrr wage as compared to current levels....would you be a happier and proud worker for your employer? Would you as an employer see a cost benefit and allow more price competition in the international markets?Ali G said:
Exactly! use that concept in the modern way for today's people....atleast that is the idea here.bobbylondonuk said:
Question for you sir: IF you or your spouse had child care facility provided by your employer during your work hours or a tax free allowance to cater for it in exchange for a low tax lowerrr wage as compared to current levels....would you be a happier and proud worker for your employer? Would you as an employer see a cost benefit and allow more price competition in the international markets?
Well we're going to take up one of the schemes on offer where a childcare fee is taken off my wife's salary before tax, thus reducing childcare's impact on her earnings a little.I think it would make me happier if the idea you mentioned was an option providing the net result of it left us financially better off in the end (disposable income available once taxes and childcare deducted) and the quality of care was suitable. I'd hope the cost saving that would allow this would be achieved through reduction in tax and benefits bureaucracy and the removal of the profit margin in childcare.
Forgot to say I'd rather the employer sees all this as an indirect cost saving i.e not that it's cheaper to pay to me and y to the childcare centre but that they will save money through my improved flexibility, dedication and quality of output. I think our industry has gone too far down the road of cutting direct costs without realising that the indirect costs as a result of poorer quality output that the cost cutting creates actually ends up costing more in the end one way or another.
Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 15th December 14:57
rover 623gsi said:
Ali G said:
or even http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BournvilleThere may be others...
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Now add tax free housing allowance or free housing and transportation allowance or free transport. How much lower a wage would you and spouse accept as long as your disposable income allows a good standard of living? If everyone did this...how much cheaper would goods and services be? how much more can we export? how many more would be employed?Trick is to make it tax free for you and your employer...BIK tax and minimum wage is the key!
bobbylondonuk said:
Now add tax free housing allowance or free housing and transportation allowance or free transport. How much lower a wage would you and spouse accept as long as your disposable income allows a good standard of living? If everyone did this...how much cheaper would goods and services be? how much more can we export? how many more would be employed?
Trick is to make it tax free for you and your employer...BIK tax and minimum wage is the key!
Wouldn't the only cost saving in this be through reduced bureaucracy and the removal of profit from the childcare, public transport and house letting and selling industry? That would destroy some peoples' businesses as they'd no longer be able to make money out of such things but that's not to say their employees would not have a job as the not-for-profit nursery would provide employment, for example. I see no reasons these organisations would not be able to be run like a business, ensuring a very modest profit or breakeven each year. It's all very complex! Would that be seen as dumping on the sole traders, small time business people? I see certain industries, childcare, utilities, public transport as necessities and something that cannot be exported. My point is to reduce the cost set aside for them to allow us to focus our spending on the industries that can export services and products to create wealth. Trick is to make it tax free for you and your employer...BIK tax and minimum wage is the key!
doogz said:
So, instead of paying someone minimum wage, what, £6.something an hour, employers now have to provide houses and childcare for employees?
Don't really see that taking off tbh.
NoNO....Don't really see that taking off tbh.
Instead of paying £6/hr and still having people who get free housing etc draining the tax system you now pay an allowance or outsource the provision of free housing, childcare and transportation and pay the worker a low wage.
Provide low wage Plus allowances for housing,childcare, transport as a benefit package which is tax free. So no PAYE/co.NI on the benefits. For the employee its free housing, transport and child care + disposable income which is also tax free if personal allowance is raised.
The employer would not have much costs even if they decided to provide the service as there will be plenty of private businesses to take over the running of the service for a fixed fee. That becomes a service industry on its own. Buy to let is now a professional service industry!!
the idea is to lower the cost of production in the UK by reducing wage and tax cost on business but not penalise the standard of living for the workers.
doogz said:
I see what you're getting at, but it seems to me, that if we simplify it right down, you have someone sitting at home, claiming benefits, living in a house for free, at our expense.
But now you want them to go to work for £2/hour, all week, so they can have the free housing that they already get without having to lift a finger.
Nice idea i suppose, but way too soft imo.
That is one side of the equation...and it deals with the issue of 'I will lose my free house if I go to work'. Now you still have a free house and spending money for working instead of draining the tax system.But now you want them to go to work for £2/hour, all week, so they can have the free housing that they already get without having to lift a finger.
Nice idea i suppose, but way too soft imo.
The other side is the employers cost of production in UK to provide mass employment. IF any employers here want to work it out and see if it is sensible??? Of course for small employers it will be small allowances ...but bigger employers might benefit from economies of scale??
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff