Wednesday 30th June 2004

Citroen Stop/Start

Stuck in traffic - engine dies, prod the throttle to get it going again

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At the next Paris Motor Show, the Citroën brand will present the "Citroën C3 Stop & Start". They claim that it's the first car to be equipped with a system that cuts the engine when the car is stopped and idling (at red lights, for deliveries, in traffic jams, etc.), then instantly restarts it at the touch of the accelerator.

The PSA Peugeot Citroën innovation will be supported by another advanced technology already commercially available on the C3, the SensoDrive electronically controlled manual gearbox. It will be presented on a model powered by a gasoline engine.

The "Stop & Start" system is expected to reduce fuel consumption by around 10% for urban driving and by 6% in the standard combined cycle.

In line with the Group’s strategic focus on developing "useful technology for everyone", Stop & Start systems will be gradually offered on other Citroën and Peugeot models, delivering benefits for both customers, in the form of better fuel economy, and society as a whole, in the form of lower CO2 emissions.

Trials conducted in a large urban environment have demonstrated that in typical customer use, cars are standing still 30% of the time. This means that, in addition to improved fuel economy and lower CO2 emissions, customers and the urban environment will also benefit from the fact that the cars are completely quiet during the many periods when they are not moving.

Volkswagen didn't have a system like this several years ago, no siree.

[DustyC]

I was about to say "what about the VW Golf system over 10 years ago" but then I noticed you already said that!

Its just as bad as Ferrari claiming they invented the front-mid engined layout for the new Spaghetti.

[verysideways]

I presume you're talking about the Golf 1.9 Umwelt.

It had a fairly high profile when it came out, around 1993/4 i think. Autocar even did a roadtest of it.

Funny how you can do a roadtest of a car that doesn't exist, isn't it Citroen? So who's going to get fired for this one then?

VS

[sidevalve]

Never mind the Golf 1.9 Umwelt - Fiat had this system on the Regata ES (Energy Saving) in 1984 - ten years before VW (and a mere 20 before Citroen). I remember it well because I nearly bought one (but got an Uno 70S instead).

[DustyC]

A snail said:

Trials conducted in a large urban environment have demonstrated that in typical customer use, cars are standing still 30% of the time. This means that, in addition to improved fuel economy and lower CO2 emissions, customers and the urban environment will also benefit from the fact that the cars are completely quiet during the many periods when they are not moving.

Imagine if all cars were like this. I imagine the noise of lots of car engines starting and stopping at junctions/traffic lights will be noisier and worse for the environment then if they were just ticking over quietly.

It sounds like a sales gimmick to me. Perhaps the need to keep up with Japanese technology and make it look like they are doing something towards the environment.

I'll be happy to be proven wrong if it does work though.

[sidevalve]

DustyC's point about stopping and starting is a fair one, but it also has to be said that it's quite exciting sitting there in a traffic jam with your engine off, hoping it will start again when the light goes green so that the white van behind doesn't ram you up the *rse! I have read somewhere that this kind of thing was going to become quite widespread in the next few years, but that it would be preceded by 42 volt electrics (3 x the current 14 aka 12), and also heavy duty electrics. I think the thought of trusting a Citroen starter motor that implicitly sounds like madness - and I have to admit that the fact that I wasn't sure I could trust a Fiat one at all time was a big factor in me buying my Uno instead of the Regata ES in 1984. I thought I would feel like a right plonker the first time signor Marelli's finest let me down in the rush hour...

[lanciachris]

This would also be great for engines that are a wee bit prone to heat soak and hot starting problems.

Plus, how are the boy racers going to get their kicks? no more revving at the traffic lights!

Id rather drive my car than be a passenger. Traffic lights are down time to listen to see that the engine is running right and conduct a full sweep of the many gauges to see that all is well!

[jam1et]

Doesnt the honda IMA (integrated motor assist) engine in their new 'Insight' model do this? Acording to their website it does anyway.....

>> Edited by jam1et on Wednesday 30th June 17:34

[phase90]

Not to mention the bazillion gas golf carts that do this. I guess those are not cars, though. Even if there are some areas in the US where old people drive them on the streets.

[Paul]

VW did it earlier than the 90's - IIRC the Polo had a similar feature in the mid 80's. My flatmate had a C-plate Polo ('85 at a guess) which did just this. With the engine running and clutch disengaged, it would switch off after about 30 seconds. you re-started the engine by wiggling the gearstick side-to-side. It was overridden by a switch on the dashboard (which needless to say, living in London he always did).

[user D]

>> Volkswagen didn't have a system like this several years ago, no siree. <<

Is it just me being a little 'under the influence' tonight or am I noticing that just lately the PH staff are becoming somewhat 'jaded and sarcastic' in their otherwise fair and un-biased reporting styles.

Not that I don't most-times agree with Ted's crew but .... well ... you know.

[james]

user D said:

>> Is it just me being a little 'under the influence' tonight or am I noticing that just lately the PH staff are becoming somewhat 'jaded and sarcastic' in their otherwise fair and un-biased reporting styles.

Nope. They've always been jaded and sarcastic. Maybe you just didn't notice before

[senake]

Didn't BMW have a car that did this, but used energy stored in an extra large flywheel to start the engine instead of the starter motor?...

[Andrew Noakes]

lanciachris said:

This would also be great for engines that are a wee bit prone to heat soak

Bet Tacuma Sato's been on the phone already.

[pbrettle]

Actually one of those Golf thingies drove past me the other day. Made me jump out of my skin! It stopped to let some oncoming traffic pass and the engine stopped, then as soon as they went, it started and off it went!!! Only problem was that the engine is a NA old VW diesel which sounds very much like a tractor (still does?) and made a hell of a racket....

Still, I remember the research well. German post office bought a load and they ended up with MPG figures well into the 50's for urban driving. Not bad considering we are talking very early first generation diesels! Died a death from then as it was just too expensive and you really needed to use them in stop-start city traffic to get any benefit...

[Road_Terrorist]

too bad if you want the air-con on while at the lights

[adrianr]

My mum owned a red VW Golf Mk III with this system; may even have been the press demo car as I'm sure I saw a picture of it in a mag somewhere. L??? VBW possibly.

She bought because it was also a clutchless manual transmission and she had leg pains at the time and didn't like autos. The stop/start worked fine, it had a button on the end of one stalk to stop it turning itself off at crucial junctions etc.

It was a very dieselly diesel tho; would be nice if VW would revive the system now so I could have it on my comparitively civilised PD 130, esp. the clutchless change bit.

AdrianR

[Mr E]

Road_Terrorist said:

too bad if you want the air-con on while at the lights

Or indeed have a sodding big turbo running very hot that requires oil flow to cool it.....

...I have a turbo timer. So it's going to run for a few minutes after I've pulled the keys out and locked the thing.....