Wheel locked up while driving...after garage worked on it

[smileymikey]

I would appreciate it if anyone could put forward a reason for this happening, or indeed support the garages claims.

I left our Chrysler Voyager with the village garage, I have used for years, for an MOT. It needed drop links outer roll bar bush's and two dampers at the front ( inherited the car from my dad, who lived in a town full of speed bumps, so so far nothing unexpected). They called while it was being fixed to say the front pads were nearly worn through, so gave ok to replace. When I got it back I used it for about a week, before one morning when I was heading to work I braked as I came up to some lights, the pedal felt like it popped then sunk to the floor. I pumped the pedal and seemed to get pressure back but as I tried to turn right at the lights there was a medal on metal banging coming from the front nearside (very loudly) before the nearside front wheel locked up solid. I managed to free it up by reversing for a couple of feet but when I went forward it locked solid again. I'm a bit concerned about this as it happened 500 yards from the M5 and a few minutes later I would have been driving at motorway speed quite possibly in the outside lane, which wouldn't have had a Disney ending.

The garage came out to the car while I was at work and fixed it, they claim that a piece of stone/metal had jammed between the pad and disc and that is what caused the problem. They have changed the pads because they were damaged and handed the keys back. They now want paying for the repair and another set of pads. Now I don't mind paying for work that's been done well, however I've always gone by the theory that if something doesn't make sense it isn't right.

My suspicions are:

Could a trapped stone caused a wheel to lock solid enough overcome the fact it is being pushed by a very heavy car at about 20mph.

This left no marks on the disc.

It happening so soon after they had the brakes and suspension stripped down.

The mechanic who handed the keys back to my wife is normally a good honest bloke, he looked guiltier than a vicar caught up to his spuds in a choir boy.

Any theories advice welcome

[Fleckers]

as a minimum there would be marks on the disk

it sounds a bit iffy to me to be honest

i would ask to see the removed pads and the thing that was jamming them

[Corsair7]

Sounds to me like the calipers weren't bolted back on after the work was done. I've had a caliper bolt come loose and it did similer - banging on turning at full lock.

Stones>? Causing wheel lock? Doesnt sound plausible. Stones cause screetching/squealing, and nothing more....

[Ray Luxury-Yacht]

My money is on loose caliper bolts, i.e they forgot to do them up and it came adrift inside the wheel.

[Mr GrimNasty]

Brake pedal drop indicates piston suddenly had nothing of resistance left to press against. I expect pad was destroyed in whatever jamming/mash up scenario occurred. Go and look him in the eye and ask him to be honest with you - no blame, no comeback, but you aren't paying.

[smileymikey]

Thanks for that, the same thought occurred to me. It wasn't a light metallic knocking, it sounded like someone trying to come through the floor using a lump hammer. That combined with the pedal going to the floor confused me (after all it had new pads in it) if the system was topped up as well where was the give in the system that would allow that much travel? I'm now going to remove the wheel and look for damage on its inside...if I find any, I'm going to be having words

[NiceCupOfTea]

.

[smileymikey]

I've looked at the inside of the wheel now and there are scuffs out of the inside edge of the spokes on the near side alloy in the direction of travel. I've done a couple of hundred miles since it was fixed and the grime seems even on the scuffs as it is on the rest of the wheel so not quite a smoking gun. I am going to remove the other three wheels as well to see if they have similar damage. If not its starting to look bad. I did wonder if the braking material had come away from its backing material and jammed somewhere but its very brittle on its own and it strikes me that the weight and momentum behind the wheel would have just smashed it to pieces ( aside from the fact that they would have flagged that up as the cause straight away). This is sad aside from the danger, because I have always thought highly of this garage as has the rest of the village.

[Rich_W]

Sounds like bulst to me.

Stones don't jam wheels they just scrape badly.
if there was a peice of metal. They should have shown you it. They chose not to.

For it to lock, with the loss of pedal is a catastrophic failure

"Sounds" like st workmanship and they've got a bloody cheek to try and get payment for additional work.

And yes, as some will have gleaned I am in the trade.

[hairykrishna]

Corsair7 said:

Sounds to me like the calipers weren't bolted back on after the work was done. I've had a caliper bolt come loose and it did similer - banging on turning at full lock.

Exactly what I thought. The symptoms are exactly the same as when my Omega somehow lost a calliper bolt. The locked wheel, reversing frees it temporarily, marks on the alloy all fit too. I suspect they either missed a bolt or didn't torque it up properly.

In the OP's position, I suspect you'll never prove it or get them to though. In that position I'd reluctantly pay and never use that garage again.

[redgriff500]

I'm a mechanic.

That simply doesn't happen with a stone.

For the pedal to go down the pad either disintegrated or jumped out.

For the wheel to lock up and free up, the caliper must be moving (ie a bolt broke (never seen that) or came lose.

Go and talk to the garage face to face and ask them to explain exactly what happened - I'd like to know how they can explain it.

There should be marks on the wheel and caliper if I'm correct.

[johnpeat]

I'm with everyone else - nothing "jamming" the brakes would cause what you experience - it was a loose caliper and/or loose pads - e.g. poor workmanship.

I'd refuse to pay for the additional work and report them to trading standards as they're clearly happy to cover a fairly serious mistake with a bill for fixing it.

At the very least you should have been shown the damaged parts to backup their story - if they're not available, I'd say that seals the deal.

[smileymikey]

Thanks for your input everyone

Rather than going in all guns blazing, I took it to two garages today the first one listened to what had happened and whilst we didnt remove the wheels. He didn't believe the theory about the stone any more than I did. I did however notice some scraping to the outside edge of the calliper which was fresh and just starting to tarnish, and what looked like a smear of alloy on the top edge of the calliper in daylight which I missed yesterday.

I then took it to the second garage he was quiet and interested, he took the near side wheel off. His first observation was that the calliper hadn't been cleaned of loose rust and crap before fitting the new pads,and no copper slip had been applied anywhere he also found some more damage on the inside face of the wheel. It was while he was shining his torch on the wheel that he notice threads inside the wheel bolt holes! Since its a free floating disc with studs there shouldn't be any threads, and the only way this would happen would be if the nuts hadn't been tightened. He went around to the drivers side and his torque wrench showed between 80 and 85 NM as the torque setting it should be between 110 and 130 :gulp:

It now looks quite likely that as I turned right the load went onto the nearside wheel,whose nuts hadn't been done up the disc's as I say aren't fixed except by the wheel itself and bingo, the calliper hit the wheel. and locked it up. I was as I say 500 yards from the motorway...total bd!!

[stoocake]

That's scary! Are you going to speak to the original garage and see if they'll be honest with you. Would certainly clear the air if they put their hands up to it...although mistakes happen, they shouldn't happen with your brakes!

Glad nobody was hurt anyway. Things could have been a lot worse.