£8-10k performance car or 182 + Seven?
Discussion
I currently drive a Clio 182 which i'm really happy with but after 3 years I feel like a change. There are so many other cars out there and I would like to do the performance car thing while I can. Budget is somewhere in the region of £8-10k.
The thing that is putting me off is that my commute is only 6 miles which means the car is only running for about 10-12 minutes at a time. It gets a longer run four or five times a month but I worry that a bigger engine won't be properly warmed by this type of driving. The plus point to this is that the short distance means fuel economy isn't really a factor. There are however the occasional much longer trips for work - could have to drive 400miles and back if needs be - so reliability is a factor.
Cars that I've considered so far:
350z
E46 M3
Monaro
B5 Audi S4
STI PPP
Criteria:
- Good enough handling so it won't make me miss the Clio
- Fairly quick (0-60 sub 6)
- RHD
- Reliable enough to use every day
Open to all suggestions, 2 Seaters, barges etc
On the other hand I could keep the 182 and buy a seven-esque car for the weekends. This is the option I'm leaning towards at the moment (as is the girlfriend).
Your suggestions/advice would be much appreciated.
The thing that is putting me off is that my commute is only 6 miles which means the car is only running for about 10-12 minutes at a time. It gets a longer run four or five times a month but I worry that a bigger engine won't be properly warmed by this type of driving. The plus point to this is that the short distance means fuel economy isn't really a factor. There are however the occasional much longer trips for work - could have to drive 400miles and back if needs be - so reliability is a factor.
Cars that I've considered so far:
350z
E46 M3
Monaro
B5 Audi S4
STI PPP
Criteria:
- Good enough handling so it won't make me miss the Clio
- Fairly quick (0-60 sub 6)
- RHD
- Reliable enough to use every day
Open to all suggestions, 2 Seaters, barges etc
On the other hand I could keep the 182 and buy a seven-esque car for the weekends. This is the option I'm leaning towards at the moment (as is the girlfriend).
Your suggestions/advice would be much appreciated.
SpoodBeast said:
- Good enough handling so it won't make me miss the Clio
If this is one of your main criteria, then all of the above will be a revelation to you (with the possible exception of the B4) Not that the Clio isn't a great little car, but it really is not all that when you start to compare it to the cars on your list.My money would be on the M3 as I think it will be a better all round car. As for 2 cars, I'll tell you what my dad always told me when buying a car.
"The cheapest bit of owning a car is the buying of it"
Running 2 cars can become very costly, even if you don't use one all that time, it will still need to be Tax'ed, insured, MOT'ed, serviced.
Have you looked into something like an S2000? I believe they are fairly good on the mpg when you keep off the V-tech, reliable, plenty in your budget, and are fairly comfortable (at least the one I was taken out in was)
If you feel like you want to change your 182 then I'd change it, the petrolhead itch needs to be scratched!
I've owned an STi (PPP) and currently have an E46 M3 - I'd say the Impreza was a lot more bonkers, the power delivery made it such that you felt compelled to give the car a bootful whenever the opportunity arose. The M3, on the other hand, is a lot more laid-back and comfortable, while still being able to deliver a nice surge of power should the mood take you. I haven't had the pleasure of being in the other three, but if I may offer some more suggestions, have you thought about an Elise/VX220, a Z4(M), or even something completely left-field like an AC Cobra recreation?
WRT the short journeys - it shouldn't be too much of a problem if you don't give it a bootful on the way to work. The M3, at least, comes with an adaptive rev limiter that starts at 5000rpm, and sequentially raises the rev limiter as the engine gets warmer (up to its peak of 8,500rpm). The engine itself also warms up much faster than, say, the engine in my old Subaru, although the STi doesn't have an oil temp gauge (which the M3 does). The coolant temperature needle is leaving the "cold" section of the gauge by the time I've pulled out of my road, and the oil tends to be approaching temperature after about five minutes.
No doubt there'll be others here to offer more suggestions, but I thought I'd throw my two pence in from my experiences.
Oh, and welcome to PH
I've owned an STi (PPP) and currently have an E46 M3 - I'd say the Impreza was a lot more bonkers, the power delivery made it such that you felt compelled to give the car a bootful whenever the opportunity arose. The M3, on the other hand, is a lot more laid-back and comfortable, while still being able to deliver a nice surge of power should the mood take you. I haven't had the pleasure of being in the other three, but if I may offer some more suggestions, have you thought about an Elise/VX220, a Z4(M), or even something completely left-field like an AC Cobra recreation?
WRT the short journeys - it shouldn't be too much of a problem if you don't give it a bootful on the way to work. The M3, at least, comes with an adaptive rev limiter that starts at 5000rpm, and sequentially raises the rev limiter as the engine gets warmer (up to its peak of 8,500rpm). The engine itself also warms up much faster than, say, the engine in my old Subaru, although the STi doesn't have an oil temp gauge (which the M3 does). The coolant temperature needle is leaving the "cold" section of the gauge by the time I've pulled out of my road, and the oil tends to be approaching temperature after about five minutes.
No doubt there'll be others here to offer more suggestions, but I thought I'd throw my two pence in from my experiences.
Oh, and welcome to PH
Having tried both approaches I reckon you should only run two (or more!) cars if one of them is suitably extreme to save for weekends and evenings only and the other suitably cheap and practical to offer a useful saving the rest of the time.
Assuming you have a total purchase budget of £10k, you should be able to justify £8k of that on the weekend toy. That could get you a pretty lairy Westfield or maybe even an ex-race Caterham. Either would make the likes of a 350Z or a Monaro feel like a canal boat on a good B-road. You wouldn't want to drive to Scotland and back in the rain, perhaps, but that's where the diesel Golf or whatever you spend the remaining £2k comes in.
It always perplexes me when someone has, say, a BMW 330 for the week and an M3 for the weekends. If you're going to have mutliple cars - particularly if you're on a budget - then they need to stand as far apart from each other as possible.
As a second car I'd highly recommend one of the better Seven-type cars. A TVR of some description (S, V8S, V8 wedges and Chimaera are all in your price range...) would also appeal; not as good to drive in extremis, but more practical for long distance use and every bit as characterful. The Elise always struck me as a tiny bit uncompromising for touring (compared to a TVR, say) and not quite as exciting as a Seven for short blasts, but it's a very compelling driving experience. And there's always the option of some sort of classic...
Assuming you have a total purchase budget of £10k, you should be able to justify £8k of that on the weekend toy. That could get you a pretty lairy Westfield or maybe even an ex-race Caterham. Either would make the likes of a 350Z or a Monaro feel like a canal boat on a good B-road. You wouldn't want to drive to Scotland and back in the rain, perhaps, but that's where the diesel Golf or whatever you spend the remaining £2k comes in.
It always perplexes me when someone has, say, a BMW 330 for the week and an M3 for the weekends. If you're going to have mutliple cars - particularly if you're on a budget - then they need to stand as far apart from each other as possible.
As a second car I'd highly recommend one of the better Seven-type cars. A TVR of some description (S, V8S, V8 wedges and Chimaera are all in your price range...) would also appeal; not as good to drive in extremis, but more practical for long distance use and every bit as characterful. The Elise always struck me as a tiny bit uncompromising for touring (compared to a TVR, say) and not quite as exciting as a Seven for short blasts, but it's a very compelling driving experience. And there's always the option of some sort of classic...
SpoodBeast said:
I currently drive a Clio 182 which i'm really happy with but after 3 years I feel like a change. There are so many other cars out there and I would like to do the performance car thing while I can. Budget is somewhere in the region of £8-10k.
The thing that is putting me off is that my commute is only 6 miles which means the car is only running for about 10-12 minutes at a time. It gets a longer run four or five times a month but I worry that a bigger engine won't be properly warmed by this type of driving. The plus point to this is that the short distance means fuel economy isn't really a factor. There are however the occasional much longer trips for work - could have to drive 400miles and back if needs be - so reliability is a factor.
Cars that I've considered so far:
350z
E46 M3
Monaro
B5 Audi S4
STI PPP
Criteria:
- Good enough handling so it won't make me miss the Clio
- Fairly quick (0-60 sub 6)
- RHD
- Reliable enough to use every day
Open to all suggestions, 2 Seaters, barges etc
On the other hand I could keep the 182 and buy a seven-esque car for the weekends. This is the option I'm leaning towards at the moment (as is the girlfriend).
Your suggestions/advice would be much appreciated.
I'd get two cars. One for commuting and one for fun. Reason being that on your 10min commute the engine oil will barely be warm by the time you arrive, so unless you want to cane it whilst cold you'll be driving cautiously on your commute. So that's not really suited to something high performance, especially turbo motors like the PPP.The thing that is putting me off is that my commute is only 6 miles which means the car is only running for about 10-12 minutes at a time. It gets a longer run four or five times a month but I worry that a bigger engine won't be properly warmed by this type of driving. The plus point to this is that the short distance means fuel economy isn't really a factor. There are however the occasional much longer trips for work - could have to drive 400miles and back if needs be - so reliability is a factor.
Cars that I've considered so far:
350z
E46 M3
Monaro
B5 Audi S4
STI PPP
Criteria:
- Good enough handling so it won't make me miss the Clio
- Fairly quick (0-60 sub 6)
- RHD
- Reliable enough to use every day
Open to all suggestions, 2 Seaters, barges etc
On the other hand I could keep the 182 and buy a seven-esque car for the weekends. This is the option I'm leaning towards at the moment (as is the girlfriend).
Your suggestions/advice would be much appreciated.
I'd get something cheap, but still petrol engined (as turbo diesels will also take ages to warm up and will be less reliable with multiple short trips) for your daily commute and spend the rest of the budget on a proper toy for weekends/trackdays. Your call, but that's what I'd do.
10K will get you a 2005 STi with the PPP (or hold back 800 quid for a remap and exhaust, which will see more like 340bhp compared to the 300 on offer from the PPP). You may find a Hawkeye (06-07) for that, but in my opinion the larger 2.5ltr engine does not have the same character as the 2.0ltr. Also, the 2005 2.0ltr has the chassis benefits of the 2.5 Hawkeye anyway.
Great car and 'totally' bonkers after a remap. Short drives are fine if you don't boot it, MPG is reasonable given power etc and on a run I can easily get 30MPG.
I considered an M3 and tested both the e46 and e90. Both fantastic cars, and if I wanted a daily for longer commutes I would have one. However, for a weekend toy they lack the theatre and lunacy that the impreza has in spades. Granted they are easy to drive quick, but because of the sheer speed and the time it takes to get there, don't underestimate the attention you need to pay
Great car and 'totally' bonkers after a remap. Short drives are fine if you don't boot it, MPG is reasonable given power etc and on a run I can easily get 30MPG.
I considered an M3 and tested both the e46 and e90. Both fantastic cars, and if I wanted a daily for longer commutes I would have one. However, for a weekend toy they lack the theatre and lunacy that the impreza has in spades. Granted they are easy to drive quick, but because of the sheer speed and the time it takes to get there, don't underestimate the attention you need to pay
mrmr96 said:
I'd get something cheap, but still petrol engined (as turbo diesels will also take ages to warm up and will be less reliable with multiple short trips) for your daily commute and spend the rest of the budget on a proper toy for weekends/trackdays. Your call, but that's what I'd do.
If you can afford to run two cars then this is good advice. I have a Mundano for the week hack 
Thanks for the responses so far. It's always nice to get people's opinions.
As I said, if I go for a Seven-rep I will keep the 182. It's not worth enough to mess about swapping it for another slightly cheaper daily driver. As for having a performance gap between the daily and weekend car, you're probably right but I know I would get frustrated taking the step back.
VX220 and Elise are also a consideration but I think I'd find them a pain in winter which brings me back to 2 cars. I've never really considered the S2000 but should probably look into them too.
As I said, if I go for a Seven-rep I will keep the 182. It's not worth enough to mess about swapping it for another slightly cheaper daily driver. As for having a performance gap between the daily and weekend car, you're probably right but I know I would get frustrated taking the step back.
VX220 and Elise are also a consideration but I think I'd find them a pain in winter which brings me back to 2 cars. I've never really considered the S2000 but should probably look into them too.
SpoodBeast said:
As for having a performance gap between the daily and weekend car, you're probably right but I know I would get frustrated taking the step back.
If you get frustrated by the gap you're probably in the wrong car for that particular journey. I guess it depends on your journey habits. These days a lot of people suffer a commute of such outstanding mundanity that a Veyron with a year's supply of free fuel still wouldn't liven it up. I never hit full throttle in my asthmatic 1.6 Focus on the way to work, for example. Obviously, I can tell it doesn't have the grunt of my other car (a 5-litre Chimaera...) but I can't honestly say I care in those circumstances.
What makes a lot of these weekend cars - particularly Sevens - so special and so pure on the right occasion also makes them hopelessly compromised most other times. By running two cars you have the opportunity to absorb that problem and run something truly bonkers for the weekend that you couldn't cope with on a day-to-day basis. Not pushing the gap means you're missing out!
It doesn't have to be a performance thing, either. You could spend your weekends grinning from ear to ear in a 1930s Austin Seven special with all of 12 hp, but you wouldn't want to take it to work on Monday.
I can imagine the 182 would be a great daily driver. So that box is already ticked. Just make sure you get something that offers a truly different experience for the weekend. A Caterham or Westfield gets my vote.
Chris71 said:
I can imagine the 182 would be a great daily driver. So that box is already ticked. Just make sure you get something that offers a truly different experience for the weekend. A Caterham or Westfield gets my vote.
This is probably the right answer as much as I love my silly STi, it's situation that makes it the right answer for me... Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff