Hot Start Lessons Learned
Discussion
Hello All,
I wanted to tell you about a few hot start troubles that I've been having and post some of my findings for other builders who may search this forum to resolve hot start issues. I had been having some trouble restarting my car when everything was warmed up to normal operating temperature. The starter would just not crank over. I searched the web for answers, spoke to electrical engineers, spoke to the factory, and took my starter to a repair shop. Just about everyone, told me to suspect the small battery as the culprit. I'm running the Odyssey PC680. I have welding cable going to my starter and also for the engine and battery grounds that is 50% larger than what the factory offers, and the IMI Hi-Torque starter(with a dedicated ground from the starter to the chassis). I upgraded the size of all the main wires in the wiring harness(which I've discussed before on this forum), and replaced the ignition with a higher quality OEM piece. I even ran a starter heat wrap shield. I then replaced the battery, but still wasn't able to hot start the car. I ran a battery booster to the battery and it would just barely crank over. Then I remembered, when I was trying to start the engine for the first time 3 years ago, there was a little learning curve involved with the FI system. Consequently, I burned up the starter.
The starter was rebuilt back then, and the same repair shop opened it up two weeks ago and said it looked brand new inside and performed exceptionally on the test stand. I took USCANAM's advice and replaced the starter anyway thinking the solenoid could still be at fault. Hell, I'd replaced everything else by this point, I might as well replace the starter. Not to mention, the factory emailed me to tell me that they don't have hot start issues. So, I installed the new starter this morning and VIOLA!!! I could tell an immeadiate difference in the starting power when cold, drove the car around a bit and now it has no problems at all starting when hot. Now I can finally drive over to my petrol station to fill the car up without worrying about it restarting! A lot of the electrical engineer types were a little hesitant about my using the PC680 and felt it was underated for the job. Odyssey has a website showing the cranking amps after 5,10,15 seconds and this was a little concerning to them. Once again, I must reaffirm the extraordinary performance of this small battery. The real lesson that I learned here, is that, rebuilding a starter does not always pay off. Maybe it was the repair shop I dealt with, or maybe the large solenoid on these things threw them for a loop. All I know is that it sure is a relief to get this sorted so that I can move onto enjoying the car! Hopefully, this information proves usefull to someone else some day.
Cheers!
-Mack
I wanted to tell you about a few hot start troubles that I've been having and post some of my findings for other builders who may search this forum to resolve hot start issues. I had been having some trouble restarting my car when everything was warmed up to normal operating temperature. The starter would just not crank over. I searched the web for answers, spoke to electrical engineers, spoke to the factory, and took my starter to a repair shop. Just about everyone, told me to suspect the small battery as the culprit. I'm running the Odyssey PC680. I have welding cable going to my starter and also for the engine and battery grounds that is 50% larger than what the factory offers, and the IMI Hi-Torque starter(with a dedicated ground from the starter to the chassis). I upgraded the size of all the main wires in the wiring harness(which I've discussed before on this forum), and replaced the ignition with a higher quality OEM piece. I even ran a starter heat wrap shield. I then replaced the battery, but still wasn't able to hot start the car. I ran a battery booster to the battery and it would just barely crank over. Then I remembered, when I was trying to start the engine for the first time 3 years ago, there was a little learning curve involved with the FI system. Consequently, I burned up the starter.
The starter was rebuilt back then, and the same repair shop opened it up two weeks ago and said it looked brand new inside and performed exceptionally on the test stand. I took USCANAM's advice and replaced the starter anyway thinking the solenoid could still be at fault. Hell, I'd replaced everything else by this point, I might as well replace the starter. Not to mention, the factory emailed me to tell me that they don't have hot start issues. So, I installed the new starter this morning and VIOLA!!! I could tell an immeadiate difference in the starting power when cold, drove the car around a bit and now it has no problems at all starting when hot. Now I can finally drive over to my petrol station to fill the car up without worrying about it restarting! A lot of the electrical engineer types were a little hesitant about my using the PC680 and felt it was underated for the job. Odyssey has a website showing the cranking amps after 5,10,15 seconds and this was a little concerning to them. Once again, I must reaffirm the extraordinary performance of this small battery. The real lesson that I learned here, is that, rebuilding a starter does not always pay off. Maybe it was the repair shop I dealt with, or maybe the large solenoid on these things threw them for a loop. All I know is that it sure is a relief to get this sorted so that I can move onto enjoying the car! Hopefully, this information proves usefull to someone else some day. Cheers!
-Mack
steve_D said:
Great news for you and no doubt a relief.
Now that you know it is the starter are you going to perform a postmortem on it or have an expert do it?
The result could be even more helpfull to others and would close the saga for you.
Steve
You know Steve, maybe I'll send it off to IMI Hi-Torque for a proper diagnosis. I think its a weak solenoid, b/c I know the brushes and bearings were changed out previously. Who knows... I'll tell you this, though, just when you think you've really mastered something, along comes a reality check
I guess that's part of the game. I'm anxious to drive the car in my town, b/c a fellow just bought either a new silver Lambo Guy-lardo or a Murawhatever that I'd like to take a run at Two silver cars...should look cool next to each other anyway.
Cheers!
-Mack
bigmack said:
I'm anxious to drive the car in my town, b/c a fellow just bought either a new silver Lambo Guy-lardo or a Murawhatever that I'd like to take a run at
Two silver cars...should look cool next to each other anyway.
Cheers!
-Mack
To quote Stig, thats "Murky Lager". Which I was always told to stay away from. Now cloudy Stout is another thing entirely!
I had a similar problem with my starter. First problem I found was that the solenoid terminal had got hot and melted its insulation. That cost me about £5 from my local autoelectrical place (standard Nippon Denso kit with both terminals and insulation bits).
The big round terminal that slides in and out had got quite pitted, so I used a fine file followed by some wet and dry to sort that out. When reassembling it you need to be really careful to get the new terminals in square otherwise they won't be flat on the round one and you'll get a poor contact and arcing, which I guess is what causes the melting in the first place. You can also pull them out of alignment when you're tightening up the nut holding the starter cables on.
The big round terminal that slides in and out had got quite pitted, so I used a fine file followed by some wet and dry to sort that out. When reassembling it you need to be really careful to get the new terminals in square otherwise they won't be flat on the round one and you'll get a poor contact and arcing, which I guess is what causes the melting in the first place. You can also pull them out of alignment when you're tightening up the nut holding the starter cables on.
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