Why's it so difficult to find out about AWD systems???
Discussion
Currently I'm researching SUV's and small off roaders for my mother, who's Freelander was recently written off in an RTA and needs replacing.
I'm pretty open minded and prepared to consider any make or model with no brand loyalty - I just want to buy the best vehicle for the money to fulfill it's intended purpose.
But boy oh boy is it difficult to find out what sort of AWD system some of these vehicles use. As in are they full time AWD or part time AWD? Do they use a viscous centre diff, or a conventional locking centre diff, or even just an open diff?
Do they have TCS with off road settings/bias?..... do they have a LSD?...... and so on.
Wikipedia seems useless for finding this info out, and tbh honest I've not had much joy with general Googling on the subject either. No reviews such as Parkers, Autocar, etc seem to cover the basic mechanical on how they work.
For me, this is a big deal, as it directly affects the vehicles ability and how they need to be driven.
If anyone can help with the above, then I'm looking at vehicles such as:
-Gen 2 and 1 Rav4
-Suzuki Grand Vitara 2nd Gen
-Gen1 X-Trail
-Shogun Pinnin
-Daihatsu Terios Gen 1
Thanks.
I'm pretty open minded and prepared to consider any make or model with no brand loyalty - I just want to buy the best vehicle for the money to fulfill it's intended purpose.
But boy oh boy is it difficult to find out what sort of AWD system some of these vehicles use. As in are they full time AWD or part time AWD? Do they use a viscous centre diff, or a conventional locking centre diff, or even just an open diff?
Do they have TCS with off road settings/bias?..... do they have a LSD?...... and so on.
Wikipedia seems useless for finding this info out, and tbh honest I've not had much joy with general Googling on the subject either. No reviews such as Parkers, Autocar, etc seem to cover the basic mechanical on how they work.
For me, this is a big deal, as it directly affects the vehicles ability and how they need to be driven.
If anyone can help with the above, then I'm looking at vehicles such as:
-Gen 2 and 1 Rav4
-Suzuki Grand Vitara 2nd Gen
-Gen1 X-Trail
-Shogun Pinnin
-Daihatsu Terios Gen 1
Thanks.
The Pinin is excellent off road. Couldn't go wrong with that for winter, depending on what you have to spend you could get a minter. Pajero Junior/Mini if you see one cheap might be worth considering. Or how about a SWB Shogun/Paj?
Not the best on fuel though, I would sacrifice some of the off road ability for the practicality and economy of something else if it was for doing big miles.
Not the best on fuel though, I would sacrifice some of the off road ability for the practicality and economy of something else if it was for doing big miles.
300bhp/ton said:
Why's it so difficult to find out about AWD systems???
balls-out said:
I'd guess that for most poeple it really doesn't make that much difference.
^^this.What percentage of the british public realise the Quattro system in an A3 is entirley different to that of an A4 do you think?
Edited by monthefish on Tuesday 3rd January 11:59
DatsunDave said:
RJP001 said:
Get a proper Land Rover or Range Rover, they definitely have functioning 4WD. 
I think you will find, in the grand scheme of things, their 4WD only works part time. 
terrain response as seen on the newer vehicles is not selectable 4wd but more aoubt tweaking settings and sensing - a reflection of the increasingly 'fly by wire' nature of modern vehicles.
Freelanders are torque biased but permanent 4wd and the first application of HDC in the mk1
the majority of Series Land Rovers are selectable ( various early S1s and the 'stage 1' SIII V8 being the exceptions)
mph1977 said:
all the coil sprung seperate chassis(-ish in the case of some of the newer vehicles) Solihull products are permanent 4 wd and have been since the launch of the Classic RR
terrain response as seen on the newer vehicles is not selectable 4wd but more aoubt tweaking settings and sensing - a reflection of the increasingly 'fly by wire' nature of modern vehicles.
Freelanders are torque biased but permanent 4wd and the first application of HDC in the mk1
the majority of Series Land Rovers are selectable ( various early S1s and the 'stage 1' SIII V8 being the exceptions)
I have driven and owned a number of them, bar the Freelanders and newest models.terrain response as seen on the newer vehicles is not selectable 4wd but more aoubt tweaking settings and sensing - a reflection of the increasingly 'fly by wire' nature of modern vehicles.
Freelanders are torque biased but permanent 4wd and the first application of HDC in the mk1
the majority of Series Land Rovers are selectable ( various early S1s and the 'stage 1' SIII V8 being the exceptions)
Like I said, they only work some of the time. I love 'em, but even I wouldn't claim they are the most reliable things.
balls-out said:
What is the vehicle to be used for?
I'd guess that for most poeple it really doesn't make that much difference.
Whilst if it were for me I would want to know, I dount my mum would notice any difference, or does she do serious off roading?
It's for my Mum as her only vehicle. So mostly will be used for general use, but her brother is a farmer (she lives next door), so it's likely to see of road action, albeit more the lanes and fields type rather than the Challenge Events and trials.I'd guess that for most poeple it really doesn't make that much difference.
Whilst if it were for me I would want to know, I dount my mum would notice any difference, or does she do serious off roading?
Apart from my idle interest in such things, my main points/concerns where:
- vehicles that are only 2wd or 4wd with no centre diff have two potential issues.
1. They require the driver to actively select 4wd, so require knowledge of when to or when not to use 4wd.
2. Lack of a centre diff means you can't run in 4wd mode all the time on the roads under certain conditions, e.g. tarmac roads running into slushy snow and back again. When it does snow we get a lot of this around here. Also when going over the lanes, you might not need 4wd, but 2wd will make progressive difficult, if you are going in and out of the lanes and road, then you'll forever be faffing changing modes. Something like a Defender with the centre diff open would be fine on all terrain without any adjustments.
- Lack of TCS and auto 4wd systems.
e.g. a Freelander 1 (as per my Mum's previous one) with HDC and TCS is a far, far superior vehicle on snow or off road compared to a Freelander 1 without HDC and TCS. The electronics totally transform the vehicles ability allowing one to go where the other would only get stuck at.
The same could be said of AWD systems, I know some out there (post 2003 Jag X-Types for example) have open centre diffs with no way of locking them and no suitable off road biased off road TCS. This means when slippery out (mud/snow) the vehicle quickly becomes 1wd and will go nowhere. I've seen similar results with the Honda C-RV, where you can get the front wheels spinning on ice, so no torque is realised and it won't transmit power to the rear wheels.
Other traction aids like LSD's and the like can totally transform a vehicles ability. But it's so vague on what vehicles have what.
Ta.
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