No cash for scrap
Discussion
Considering you can't even buy numberplates without six hundred bits of paper it's refreshing to see a clampdown mooted where you will need proper ID to recycle metals:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16411400
I also think it's really unreasonable to expect to be paid cash for it. I'm assuming for most people the income from recycling metals is a year-end bonus rather than something to live off. I wonder how much tax evasion/VAT fraud goes on right now..
"We do not believe that the elimination of cash transactions will have any possible impact on the thefts of metal and could increase the incidents of illegal activity," said Ian Hetherington, director general of the British Metals Recycling Association.
"Our members do not particularly relish the use of cash. But their customers do demand they are paid in cash and their customers range from plumbers [to] builders, roofing contractors, demolition contractors [and] the whole range of people who on a day-to-day to basis sell scrap and they sell scrap for cash."
Yeah, well, tough s
t, I have to pay tax, so do you.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16411400
I also think it's really unreasonable to expect to be paid cash for it. I'm assuming for most people the income from recycling metals is a year-end bonus rather than something to live off. I wonder how much tax evasion/VAT fraud goes on right now..
"We do not believe that the elimination of cash transactions will have any possible impact on the thefts of metal and could increase the incidents of illegal activity," said Ian Hetherington, director general of the British Metals Recycling Association.
"Our members do not particularly relish the use of cash. But their customers do demand they are paid in cash and their customers range from plumbers [to] builders, roofing contractors, demolition contractors [and] the whole range of people who on a day-to-day to basis sell scrap and they sell scrap for cash."
Yeah, well, tough s
t, I have to pay tax, so do you.
Oakey said:
So, rather than address the real issue, we're going to ban cash for metal?
I suspect these relatively sImple measures might help to address the real issue.There should be absolutely no reason whatsoever anyone selling scrap shouldn't accept a non-cash payment.
Starting to get proper traceability into sales has to be a good thing...? (though we might see a few less untaxed Mercs on the roads).
essayer said:
Considering you can't even buy numberplates without six hundred bits of paper ....
not correct - i have bought fully legal plates off ebay without being required to produce and documentationmy next door neighbour is a scrap metal recycler (NOT a pikie) and full registered etc
he will not take anything he thinks might be 'dodgy'
i asked another guy i know in the scrap business and he told me at least half a dozen ways someone could 'fence' stolen scrap
Guam said:
I love how people bang on about how they pay their taxes and cash transactions are immoral however in most cases the very people who make this point are happy to ask for a "discount" <cough> for cash from traders lol.
The massive rumoured growth in the black economy <and fall in tax revenues> doesnt happen just due to the traders now does it?
Unless the consumer forces pressure onto the trader <who may be in survival mode> there would not be a "Black Economy"
Childcare, Window Cleaners, Gardeners, Plumbers etc etc etc are all doing cash work for consumers who I am sure are paying the full whack right?
The issue here is more one of theft of vital infrastructure than to raise tax revenues I suspect!
absolutely - add to that list builders/garages/domestic cleaners etcThe massive rumoured growth in the black economy <and fall in tax revenues> doesnt happen just due to the traders now does it?
Unless the consumer forces pressure onto the trader <who may be in survival mode> there would not be a "Black Economy"
Childcare, Window Cleaners, Gardeners, Plumbers etc etc etc are all doing cash work for consumers who I am sure are paying the full whack right?
The issue here is more one of theft of vital infrastructure than to raise tax revenues I suspect!
all the 'law abiding souls' asking for discounts for cash to avoid tax/vat - pmsl!
Oakey said:
So, rather than address the real issue, we're going to ban cash for metal?
Okay whats the real issue?Is it those who name we cannot say
Not entirely
My father is a retired builder and we still does the odd bit of work here and there
He has mate who is a scrap dealer
My father buys bundles of copper pipe off him.
The reason that the scrap dealer has brand new bundles of pipe
Company employees who are doing plumbing work take a 5 bunches of pipe for doing a house, use 4 and scrap the 1 remaining.
Same with copper cable
kill the cash market and it stops alot of crime and not just from those who name we cannot say
as i said earlier - many ways of 'fencing' scrap if the cash payments are stopped
i know a few small plumbers who sell scrap - both leftover and removed from properties (ie hot water cylinders)
if they are stopped selling for cash they will just sell to a third party - for a slightly lower price
and as someone else said - then if a private individual sells scrap gold/silver to a jeweller then they must not be paid in cash?
thats unworkable because not everyone has a bank account - so would the cheque have to be made payable to a third party?
see where this is going?
i know a few small plumbers who sell scrap - both leftover and removed from properties (ie hot water cylinders)
if they are stopped selling for cash they will just sell to a third party - for a slightly lower price
and as someone else said - then if a private individual sells scrap gold/silver to a jeweller then they must not be paid in cash?
thats unworkable because not everyone has a bank account - so would the cheque have to be made payable to a third party?
see where this is going?
Edited by grand cherokee on Thursday 5th January 10:54
This sounds like an excellent idea to me. I weighed in a shell a couple of years ago and was ammzed that I was asked no questions at all about where it came from, and was paid in cash without asking for it. And this was from a large, multi-branch firm of high reputation.
It would have been all the same if there had been a couple of manhole covers in the boot.
It would have been all the same if there had been a couple of manhole covers in the boot.
Sadly, it is unfeasable to catch the theives, as in most similar scenarios. If the problem is becoming severe then the only option is to regulate the dealers and make them liable.
It will push the primary side of the deal to fences who would act as then official seller etc and thus quite dramatically reduce the payments going to the ground troops while ensuring that the fence was nicely traceable once a scrappy's books were looked into.
It will push the primary side of the deal to fences who would act as then official seller etc and thus quite dramatically reduce the payments going to the ground troops while ensuring that the fence was nicely traceable once a scrappy's books were looked into.
A large number of the thefts from those we cannot anme could be prevented or curtailled were extant laws - vehicle taxation and insurance, or planning permissions for example - used by the police. But they aren't.
The theft of stuff in general by is in part a symptom of the reticence of the police and authorities to tackle the issue.
The theft of stuff in general by is in part a symptom of the reticence of the police and authorities to tackle the issue.
Digga said:
A large number of the thefts from those we cannot anme could be prevented or curtailled were extant laws - vehicle taxation and insurance, or planning permissions for example - used by the police. But they aren't.
The theft of stuff in general by is in part a symptom of the reticence of the police and authorities to tackle the issue.
Theft of cables and infrastructure from the railways is taken pretty seriously I can tell you. I can't speak about planning permission but I can assure you the police deal vigorously with tax and insurance on vehicles as well. WHat makes you think that they don't?The theft of stuff in general by is in part a symptom of the reticence of the police and authorities to tackle the issue.
BoRED S2upid said:
About time too I bet the fraud and tax evasion in this industry is through the roof especially with scrap metal prices being so high.
same applies to jewellers paying cash for gold and silversome of them are simply robbing bar stewards
my cleaner has a friend who hit hard times and wanted to sell some 'scrap' earrings/chains etc
she went to various jewellers in the local town for prices - was told blatant lies - prices varied from £50 to £350
so who are the real crooks preying on people in hardship
best prices for gold currently being paid by indian dealers - or so i'm told - lol!
ExChrispy Porker said:
Digga said:
A large number of the thefts from those we cannot anme could be prevented or curtailled were extant laws - vehicle taxation and insurance, or planning permissions for example - used by the police. But they aren't.
The theft of stuff in general by is in part a symptom of the reticence of the police and authorities to tackle the issue.
Theft of cables and infrastructure from the railways is taken pretty seriously I can tell you. I can't speak about planning permission but I can assure you the police deal vigorously with tax and insurance on vehicles as well. WHat makes you think that they don't?The theft of stuff in general by is in part a symptom of the reticence of the police and authorities to tackle the issue.
Just look at some of the scrap Transits running around FFS.
grand cherokee said:
oh you wag!
never have sold any nor intend to
know someone who might buy a nissan 350z - save you the embarrassment of driving it - pmsl!
This from the poster who is too embarassed to list their vehicles I assume? never have sold any nor intend to
know someone who might buy a nissan 350z - save you the embarrassment of driving it - pmsl!
Edited by grand cherokee on Thursday 5th January 11:52
Oakey said:
This from the poster who is too embarassed to list their vehicles I assume?
grand cherokee - maybe thats a clue?anyway thats the name i registered under before i sold the gc - if you have a look at my other posts it should tell you what i currently drive?
i don't believe in posting a list of cars currently or previously owned as imo its 'crass' - but each to their own?
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