DMS Porsche 996TT in EVO
Discussion
Hi Daz
It's a full review in the new August edition.
Gats a 5 star rating and sounds absolutely stunning. The 550bhp upgrade, based on an X50 car is an ECU remap and new exhaust system.
I've got half an eye on 2nd hand 996TT myself at the moment and knowing that a useable 550bhp is so readily available makes it an even more exciting prospect, as i need some serious ponies to get the kick in the pants of the Noble
It's a full review in the new August edition.
Gats a 5 star rating and sounds absolutely stunning. The 550bhp upgrade, based on an X50 car is an ECU remap and new exhaust system.
I've got half an eye on 2nd hand 996TT myself at the moment and knowing that a useable 550bhp is so readily available makes it an even more exciting prospect, as i need some serious ponies to get the kick in the pants of the Noble
I read this article. Looks intersting.
They say that the chipping / remap doesn't show up on Porsche's diagnostic equipment at service time, so if you keep the standard exhaust and cats, you can still have and X50 with 520 BHP and have it go undetected. This costs only 2 grand-ish. The 550 BHP claim for the car tested in Evo was for an X50 with new exhaust, race cats and the remap. This would lose your warranty as they would easily spot the new exhaust!
They say that the chipping / remap doesn't show up on Porsche's diagnostic equipment at service time, so if you keep the standard exhaust and cats, you can still have and X50 with 520 BHP and have it go undetected. This costs only 2 grand-ish. The 550 BHP claim for the car tested in Evo was for an X50 with new exhaust, race cats and the remap. This would lose your warranty as they would easily spot the new exhaust!
Adamt said:
I havent read the article yet but 50bhp from just a chip is quite something,
Not really Adam, pretty normal area for turbo gains.
johnny senna said:
I read this article. Looks intersting.
They say that the chipping / remap doesn't show up on Porsche's diagnostic equipment at service time!
They may indeed say that, however this doesnt make it true tho!
Adamt said:
I havent read the article yet but 50bhp from just a chip is quite something, id love to see a dyno graph, did they print one?
all the best
adam
Sadly no dyno plots. They claim better than a 50 BHP gain for the remap alone.
I've dug the mag out (Evo August) and here are the numbers:
DMS Porsche 996 Turbo X50.
Remap only costs £2233 and gets you 525 BHP, so a 75 BHP gain there.
The exhaust with the freer-flowing cats costs £2115. Add that to the remap and you have 550 BHP.
I will have to compare those power figures and prices to Ruf's offerings, I'm sure GuyR recently posted a Ruf price list. As I recall, if you want 550 BHP from Ruf, you need 20,000 Euros, but thet do more work to your motor. Can't remember if that price is for an X50 or standard Turbo. I'll check.
Right, I've just found the Ruf price list. The closest thing they offer seems to be number 3 on this list.
But as Guy says later in the thread I got his quote from, he isn't sure what Ruf do to the car for your 19,000 Euros. Probably more than a remap and exhaust/cats I should think. They're making you the same engine as Adam has in his Ruf R Turbo after all.
And there's the Ruf warranty you get which is worth a lot. As Guy says, the DMS conversion and others like it are good if your Porsche is out of warranty. They make more sense then. On the other hand, giving your engine 550 BHP makes detonation more likely......
>> Edited by johnny senna on Sunday 4th July 23:30
GuyR said:
Here's the 996TT/GT2 pricelist for conversions.....it excludes VAT.
1.RUF Rturbo 520 bhp (DIN) engine conversion including high performance exhaust system €19,200
2. RUF Rturbo 550 bhp (DIN) engine conversion including high performance exhaust system €25,200
3.RUF Rturbo 550 bhp (DIN) engine conversion including high performance exhaust system Based in the 996 Turbo with option X50 / 450 bhp €19,200
4. Taller 6th gear ratio for a top speed over 330 km/h €3,200
5. RUF Integrated Roll Cage (IRC) including all the necessary alcantara upholstery trim €9,900 leather trim is an optional extra)
6. RUF front lip spoiler € 1,350 fitting and painting €400
7. RUF rear spoiler €1,700 fitting and painting €400
8. RUF instrumentation with green typeface €1,900 (in exchange)
9. 19” RUF aluminium alloy wheels: 8.5” and 11.0” wide with 225/40 ZR 19 €3,900 and 305/25 ZR 19 tyres front and rear respectively
But as Guy says later in the thread I got his quote from, he isn't sure what Ruf do to the car for your 19,000 Euros. Probably more than a remap and exhaust/cats I should think. They're making you the same engine as Adam has in his Ruf R Turbo after all.
And there's the Ruf warranty you get which is worth a lot. As Guy says, the DMS conversion and others like it are good if your Porsche is out of warranty. They make more sense then. On the other hand, giving your engine 550 BHP makes detonation more likely......
>> Edited by johnny senna on Sunday 4th July 23:30
A friend of mine has a 996GT2, with sports exhausts and cats which has been re-mapped and dynoed at 535ish BHP. 50 bhp gain should be no problem with a decent map. It is nigh on impossible for an OPC to tell of a re-map I've been told by an ex. OPC head mechanic, despite their claims to be able to do so with their diagnostics!
On the exhaust front, I ran Cargraphic exhausts on my rhd 993rs and it did'nt stop a new clutch, dif. re-build and numerous other things being sorted under warranty at my local OPC.
On the exhaust front, I ran Cargraphic exhausts on my rhd 993rs and it did'nt stop a new clutch, dif. re-build and numerous other things being sorted under warranty at my local OPC.
£5k for some pipework and ECU twiddlidge, yielding between 520 and 550 from a blown pig that came off the design table with around 420?
Dear me, those 996 engines must be a helluva lot stronger than their forbears if they can withstand all that extra grunt and not jepordise the mechanicals any.
Hmmm...
Dear me, those 996 engines must be a helluva lot stronger than their forbears if they can withstand all that extra grunt and not jepordise the mechanicals any.
Hmmm...
993rsr said:
It is nigh on impossible for an OPC to tell of a re-map I've been told by an ex. OPC head mechanic, despite their claims to be able to do so with their diagnostics!
Sorry but he's wrong.
Anyway despite all this as I said to charlie360 a while back (I'll search for the thread in a mo & post a link) I'd go the West tuning of Thruxton route over DMS.
iguana said:
It is nigh on impossible for an OPC to tell of a re-map I've been told by an ex. OPC head mechanic, despite their claims to be able to do so with their diagnostics!
Sorry but he's wrong.
Anyway despite all this as I said to charlie360 a while back (I'll search for the thread in a mo & post a link) I'd go the West tuning of Thruxton route over DMS.
Why? What is wrong with DMS,,,why the preference?
clubsport said:
Why? What is wrong with DMS,,,why the preference?
Opps got my meaning out of context. I mean that nowadays on a modern porker its posible to get a really scary amount of info using diagnostics if the operator wishes to & knows how to. Just dont belive that ECU mods on current cars are invisable is all im saying.
No bad experiences of DMS or anything, merely yrs of knowing Ray West & his workmanship is all- altho to balance out the free West praise, the bugger takes flippin' ages on my cheapo wagons tho the ratbag!- £2.5k re-maps take rather more priority over working on my old heaps!
Oh had a blat in charlies at Brunters, way quicker than a standard turbo.
Those links-
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=64466&f=48&h=0&hw=west
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=77709&f=48&h=0&hw=west
Iguana - I did mention the word 'virtually'!
As you stated, if anyone has the ability to read the specific paramater's associated with the level of boost it would be possible to recognise this with the Porsche diagnostics.
However, the likelyhood of anyone within the OPC dealer network having this expertise is most unlikely.
As you stated, if anyone has the ability to read the specific paramater's associated with the level of boost it would be possible to recognise this with the Porsche diagnostics.
However, the likelyhood of anyone within the OPC dealer network having this expertise is most unlikely.
iguana said:
I mean that nowadays on a modern porker its posible to get a really scary amount of info using diagnostics if the operator wishes to & knows how to. Just dont belive that ECU mods on current cars are invisable is all im saying.
I don't think anyone in the average OPC would be able to tell the difference between a standard map and a remapped ECU. When I watched the MoTec going onto my old M3 I watched the lads at Powerstation map the thing. They create an odd looking 3D map for the fuelling and another for the ignition timing. The blokes at Powerstation can just look at one of these graphs and tell you if the map is likely to be any good or not or if the car has been remapped. I doubt anyone in an OPC could do this.
Big but coming up......
As Guy says....the OPC fellas will smell a rat when they drive your car and see that the boost goes rather higher than the last 996 Turbo they drove......
Then they might get someone who knows about remapping to look at the matter more seriously (examine those 3D graphs) and then they will void the warranty.
Boost is displayed in the middle of the dashboard on the digital display, so it's easy to see. If you have an extra 100bhp then you would also feel it (or the conversion hasn't worked!)
As for dealer relationship, thats very true, some smaller regional dealers are far more accomodating (since individual customers mean more to them especially Turbo/GT2 owners). The Southern/West London OPCs are however very large, very corporate and owned by Porsche GB, so stick to the rules very rigidly............
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