Training advice
Discussion
A question for the experienced guys.
When training body parts for eg Chest & Tri's. Is it allowed / beneficial to jump from one muscle group to the next then back again to prevent/slow down muscle fatigue?
What I mean is if say you do a chest set of 3x8 then you go toTri push down and do 3x8 then go back to chest and do say fly's and so on.
Would this work, or is the aim to fatigue the muscle as soon as possible?
When training body parts for eg Chest & Tri's. Is it allowed / beneficial to jump from one muscle group to the next then back again to prevent/slow down muscle fatigue?
What I mean is if say you do a chest set of 3x8 then you go toTri push down and do 3x8 then go back to chest and do say fly's and so on.
Would this work, or is the aim to fatigue the muscle as soon as possible?
Interesting question. No idea about the answer but it made me think that for endurance purposes in climbing, Neil Gresham (http://www.neilgresham.com/) apparently recommends going for the first "pump" then resting as I think it means you will last longer.
Although now I'm suddenly reminded of a technique one of my friends who openly uses escorts says he was taught by one which goes on a similar theme...
Although now I'm suddenly reminded of a technique one of my friends who openly uses escorts says he was taught by one which goes on a similar theme...
As Diddly says it depends on what your aims are, but I often (well, one every four workouts I'd say) completely mix up my routine. Eg I'll do weighted chins and then straight to doing dips. I find these can often be as productive and definitely more enjoyable than my normal workouts. One more thing, ditch the tricep push downs and the flyes - fairly pointless exercises.
mcelliott said:
One more thing, ditch the tricep push downs and the flyes - fairly pointless exercises.
It's possible that he's too weak to do tricep dips and doesn't have access to a dips machine that can take some of the weight.As for flies, don't they work the outer area of the chest rather than, say, bench presses which work the central area?
I have 2 goals to my training, one is to lose weight which I`m using cardio and diet and so far have lost 2st, the other is to get in shape and build some muscle mass, which I`m lifting weights for. I`d love the Spartan look for summer but haven`t a hope in hell! ;-)
I`m 40 in May so no spring chicken, and I find when I`m training, I can do more by alternating muscle exercises. Whilst doing this I thought, hang on, am I defeating the object of exhausting the muscle quickly and giving it time to recover??
Also regarding dumbbell fly`s and tricep push-downs, I knew cable fly`s where only for cutting the muscle once developed, so a waste of time for most, but I`ve noticed a lot of blokes doing dumbbell fly`s, are they all wrong? (that isn`t the reason for me doing it)
The tri push downs seem to be working for me and tbh it`s one of the few exercises I enjoy and I can see a difference to my arms, mainly on the outside of the tri and not to the bingo wing part, so I`ll take any good advice on board. I normally do pushdowns and kickbacks for tri`s, 3 sets of 10 for each. What`s the best tri workout?
I`m 40 in May so no spring chicken, and I find when I`m training, I can do more by alternating muscle exercises. Whilst doing this I thought, hang on, am I defeating the object of exhausting the muscle quickly and giving it time to recover??
Also regarding dumbbell fly`s and tricep push-downs, I knew cable fly`s where only for cutting the muscle once developed, so a waste of time for most, but I`ve noticed a lot of blokes doing dumbbell fly`s, are they all wrong? (that isn`t the reason for me doing it)
The tri push downs seem to be working for me and tbh it`s one of the few exercises I enjoy and I can see a difference to my arms, mainly on the outside of the tri and not to the bingo wing part, so I`ll take any good advice on board. I normally do pushdowns and kickbacks for tri`s, 3 sets of 10 for each. What`s the best tri workout?
Wide-grip pull ups will work the triceps as will dips. If you're "generously proportioned" you might find it tricky.
As for flies, I saw one YT interview with some American fitness model and he recommends doing flies to widen the chest area whilst bench presses thicken the muscle. One thing I have noticed is when I did flies, they did build the area of the chest nearer the shoulders.
Re being 40 this year, I'm 40 in March and don't see age being an excuse. I know guys who are older and fitter/leaner than me. So just keep training.
As for flies, I saw one YT interview with some American fitness model and he recommends doing flies to widen the chest area whilst bench presses thicken the muscle. One thing I have noticed is when I did flies, they did build the area of the chest nearer the shoulders.
Re being 40 this year, I'm 40 in March and don't see age being an excuse. I know guys who are older and fitter/leaner than me. So just keep training.
Oh, wasn't an interview. Was his training video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00X-A2qzsdM
Tis a bit cheesey but he appears to have achieved a decent physique.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00X-A2qzsdM
Tis a bit cheesey but he appears to have achieved a decent physique.
Hoofy said:
As for flies, don't they work the outer area of the chest rather than, say, bench presses which work the central area?
Ok I should have added maybe "IMO". If the OP is seeing results from doing flyes then stick with them. I've tried them and they didn't work for me. A regime of benching and dips and wide grip push ups have given me a fairly pleasing degree of all over thickness.mcelliott said:
Ok I should have added maybe "IMO". If the OP is seeing results from doing flyes then stick with them. I've tried them and they didn't work for me. A regime of benching and dips and wide grip push ups have given me a fairly pleasing degree of all over thickness.
Cool. Yes, wide push ups would have a similar effect to flies, I should imagine. Do you find dips works the chest or do you mean chest dips (by leaning forwards/having your feet forwards)?Thanks guys I`ll add dips to my routine.
Going back to the original question though, what`s your thoughts on changing muscle group in a workout.
Another example is when I do back and bi`s,I start with dead lifts, then bent over barbell rows or lat pull downs, then I go to preacher curls then standing dumbbell hammer curls then I move back on to my back and do seated rows then finish my bi`s off with cable curls.
As I said I find I can work the muscles more by alternating the muscle worked than working one muscle to exhaustion using various exercises.
Going back to the original question though, what`s your thoughts on changing muscle group in a workout.
Another example is when I do back and bi`s,I start with dead lifts, then bent over barbell rows or lat pull downs, then I go to preacher curls then standing dumbbell hammer curls then I move back on to my back and do seated rows then finish my bi`s off with cable curls.
As I said I find I can work the muscles more by alternating the muscle worked than working one muscle to exhaustion using various exercises.
I don't think there's any need to swap them around!
My arms have grown very well focusing on the large muscle groups first. I know tons of guys who actually do no arm training for instance and have great arms from the other lifts.
Personally on the back/biceps day, my biceps are usually trashed by the time I come to do any bicep training which isn't a problem because it just means I get to failure quicker which if you're trying to build muscle is what you want anyway. Building muscle as opposed to strength is all about getting to failure anyway.
My arms have grown very well focusing on the large muscle groups first. I know tons of guys who actually do no arm training for instance and have great arms from the other lifts.
Personally on the back/biceps day, my biceps are usually trashed by the time I come to do any bicep training which isn't a problem because it just means I get to failure quicker which if you're trying to build muscle is what you want anyway. Building muscle as opposed to strength is all about getting to failure anyway.
Hoofy said:
Cool. Yes, wide push ups would have a similar effect to flies, I should imagine. Do you find dips works the chest or do you mean chest dips (by leaning forwards/having your feet forwards)?
I find the chest dips you've described the most effective (and hardest) form of dipping. It really does target the chest area moreso than conventional dipping. You know, leant forward but feet behind, although this would be an effective way of doing things for a beginner. I've linked a demo to the chest dip below (it's not me, that bloke's way too skinny). http://youtu.be/T9aWfBptNL0
Edited by mcelliott on Saturday 7th January 22:09
mcelliott said:
I find the chest dips you've described the most effective (and hardest) form of dipping. It really does target the chest area moreso than conventional dipping. You know, leant forward but feet behind, although this would be an effective way of doing things for a beginner. I've linked a demo to the chest dip below (it's not me, that bloke's way too skinny).
http://youtu.be/T9aWfBptNL0
Thanks. Will try that next time I'm in the gym.http://youtu.be/T9aWfBptNL0
Edited by mcelliott on Saturday 7th January 22:09
If i'm doing splits for example chest and tri's. I'll finish my chest workouts first because they are a heavier exercise, and tri's are a secondary muscle group when working chest. If I do back and biceps. I finish back first as it's much heavier, biceps are the secondary muscle group, so i blast them on the end of a back workout.
I think it's more beneficial to finish off your chest exercises, then as your triceps have been semi trained finish them off with a few exercises of their own. But that's just me. I wouldn't want to incline bench, then do weighted dips, then try and do bench press, because i wouldn't move as much weight. But thats just me anyway
I think it's more beneficial to finish off your chest exercises, then as your triceps have been semi trained finish them off with a few exercises of their own. But that's just me. I wouldn't want to incline bench, then do weighted dips, then try and do bench press, because i wouldn't move as much weight. But thats just me anyway
r1ch said:
If i'm doing splits for example chest and tri's. I'll finish my chest workouts first because they are a heavier exercise, and tri's are a secondary muscle group when working chest. If I do back and biceps. I finish back first as it's much heavier, biceps are the secondary muscle group, so i blast them on the end of a back workout.
I think it's more beneficial to finish off your chest exercises, then as your triceps have been semi trained finish them off with a few exercises of their own. But that's just me. I wouldn't want to incline bench, then do weighted dips, then try and do bench press, because i wouldn't move as much weight. But thats just me anyway
I agree, always hit the big muscles first!I think it's more beneficial to finish off your chest exercises, then as your triceps have been semi trained finish them off with a few exercises of their own. But that's just me. I wouldn't want to incline bench, then do weighted dips, then try and do bench press, because i wouldn't move as much weight. But thats just me anyway
To answer your question, yes switching between exercises can have its benefits if you are trying to stimulate your muscles for growth. As for being allowed, you can do what ever works for you. Try the following routine, train chest first, followed by shoulders and end with triceps. Select two exercises per body part, 8-10 reps per set, try to complete 3 sets, 60 secounds rest between sets, then move onto next body part before finishing on triceps. You should find that at this point, you are only just flushing out your triceps due to their involvement in the previous exercises. Good luck
Gassing Station | Health Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff