Hey Khooni-Z4M vs CaymanR
Discussion
Nice car in the classifieds mate, if it had nav I'd be on the phone 
I've pretty much decided its a Z4M coupe for me next, I can drive it daily & do a few trackdays/eurohoons in it without getting too precious about it.
Considering how much I fell for the caymanR what are your thoughts on the two? I love the engine in the M, even if the chassis may not be as accomplished as the pork, what do you think?
I've pretty much decided its a Z4M coupe for me next, I can drive it daily & do a few trackdays/eurohoons in it without getting too precious about it.
Considering how much I fell for the caymanR what are your thoughts on the two? I love the engine in the M, even if the chassis may not be as accomplished as the pork, what do you think?
Z4M is a craker - that engine is amazing!!!
I have had 3 Z3M's with the chassis sorted by the installation of the 3 available body braces - the absolute most fun I have ever experienced in a car - about 150,000 miles covered in total - begs to be thrashed!
The Z4M is much more refined but just as much fun and pretty bomb proof too - apart from the brakes!
Khushy
I have had 3 Z3M's with the chassis sorted by the installation of the 3 available body braces - the absolute most fun I have ever experienced in a car - about 150,000 miles covered in total - begs to be thrashed!
The Z4M is much more refined but just as much fun and pretty bomb proof too - apart from the brakes!
Khushy
Edited by khushy on Sunday 8th January 13:09
Edited by khushy on Sunday 8th January 13:10
khushy said:
Z4M is a craker - that engine is amazing!!!
I have had 3 Z3M's with the chassis sorted by the installation of the 3 available body braces - the absolute most fun I have ever experienced in a car - about 150,000 miles covered in total - begs to be thrashed!
The Z4M is much more refined but just as much fun and pretty bomb proof too - apart from the brakes!
Khushy
cheers mate, yeah i know about the brakes, was the same on my csl although i've got to be honest i didn't find them too bad, as long as you limited your runs on shorter, twistier circuits to a few less laps, no bad thing in a road/track car compromise.I have had 3 Z3M's with the chassis sorted by the installation of the 3 available body braces - the absolute most fun I have ever experienced in a car - about 150,000 miles covered in total - begs to be thrashed!
The Z4M is much more refined but just as much fun and pretty bomb proof too - apart from the brakes!
Khushy
still grates when my cheap as chips van has essentially the same bit of lame engineering mind.
so is it as simple as it would seem? bmw best engine, porsche best chassis?
you drive your spyder a lot how would you compare?
Hi.
I am selling the z4mc to make space for the Cayman R.
Originally I picked it up last April with the intention that it would be like the last z3mc I owned for 4 years ie a long term ownership proposition.
To me, it has a classic long bonnet and a beautiful coupe shape. It also has the last M inline 6 engine which BMW is famous for.
The z4m has the torquier engine (compared to spyder) and a thrilling red line chase. For some reason, the induction noise is quite amplified in the z4m, and it is quite loud inside like a CR.
With CSL brakes, a super rigid body and all mechanical issues sorted out, I thought it would replace my beloved z3mc which i regretted selling.
I didn't care about sat nav, PDC or any other tech other than it had a full history and felt as tight as a brand new car. When I test drove the car, it felt like a new car and that was what sealed it for me.
so far so good, 6 months down the line, why am I selling it?
I just didn't get on with the steering or the stiff ride. Despite being a rigid car with fast steering (fastest before the 1m came up), it was a physical car to drive. The steering was heavy and you had to drive around the understeer even at moderate speeds. The gear change was also notchy. As I found out, these are all things that magazine testers pointed out, and well known; the z4-forum guys love the car for it's manliness (ie german TVR tag). Whilst, it feels faster than the spyder in a straight line (and my spyder is light), i became frustrated with the driving dynamics........
In summary, as much as I like to look at it and hear the crazy induction, I didn't want to drive it. in 6 months, I had 2 long trips and clocked 1500 miles........
so It is up for sale......
Unfortunately for me also, I fell in love with the CR and worst of all, I seem to be able to afford one
If the CR hadn't been around, I prolly would have kept it just for the engine...............
I am selling the z4mc to make space for the Cayman R.
Originally I picked it up last April with the intention that it would be like the last z3mc I owned for 4 years ie a long term ownership proposition.
To me, it has a classic long bonnet and a beautiful coupe shape. It also has the last M inline 6 engine which BMW is famous for.
The z4m has the torquier engine (compared to spyder) and a thrilling red line chase. For some reason, the induction noise is quite amplified in the z4m, and it is quite loud inside like a CR.
With CSL brakes, a super rigid body and all mechanical issues sorted out, I thought it would replace my beloved z3mc which i regretted selling.
I didn't care about sat nav, PDC or any other tech other than it had a full history and felt as tight as a brand new car. When I test drove the car, it felt like a new car and that was what sealed it for me.
so far so good, 6 months down the line, why am I selling it?
I just didn't get on with the steering or the stiff ride. Despite being a rigid car with fast steering (fastest before the 1m came up), it was a physical car to drive. The steering was heavy and you had to drive around the understeer even at moderate speeds. The gear change was also notchy. As I found out, these are all things that magazine testers pointed out, and well known; the z4-forum guys love the car for it's manliness (ie german TVR tag). Whilst, it feels faster than the spyder in a straight line (and my spyder is light), i became frustrated with the driving dynamics........
In summary, as much as I like to look at it and hear the crazy induction, I didn't want to drive it. in 6 months, I had 2 long trips and clocked 1500 miles........
so It is up for sale......
Unfortunately for me also, I fell in love with the CR and worst of all, I seem to be able to afford one
If the CR hadn't been around, I prolly would have kept it just for the engine...............
Edited by khooni on Sunday 8th January 15:22
Edited by khooni on Sunday 8th January 15:22
cragswinter said:
cheers mate, yeah i know about the brakes, was the same on my csl although i've got to be honest i didn't find them too bad, as long as you limited your runs on shorter, twistier circuits to a few less laps, no bad thing in a road/track car compromise.
still grates when my cheap as chips van has essentially the same bit of lame engineering mind.
so is it as simple as it would seem? bmw best engine, porsche best chassis?
you drive your spyder a lot how would you compare?
The M and the Spyder feel very similar EXCEPT when I get into the Spyder I dont feel the need to thrash the bstill grates when my cheap as chips van has essentially the same bit of lame engineering mind.
so is it as simple as it would seem? bmw best engine, porsche best chassis?
you drive your spyder a lot how would you compare?
ks of of it to have fun - the Spyder, although quite raw and extremely fast, rewards much smoother and foresighted driving - the M just begged me to thrash it EVERY time I started the engine - which I was happy to do - and I mean thrash it!!!If it doesnt have it - get a front strut brace - it makes a MASSIVE difference and is the best bang/buck upgrade you can do on those cars - enjoy the ride - the engine is MENTAL.
The Spyder is faster - but it achieves it in less of a hooligan fashion - its much more refined and maybe less bomb proof overall + the prices for fxing it are mega!!!
In my first M - I did 105,000 miles without any problem - asided from usual vanos and brake disc munching - the oil looked a good as the day it was made at 105,000 miles - the S54 engine ws the best - not as mental as the s50 - and totally bullet proof - the MZ4 had the benefit of all the ponies that the M3 did too.
If they sold them new -I would have another Z3M tommorrow - the Spyder is the nearest thing I have come to since - in terms of outright fun.
But I do miss the totally predicatble 4 wheel drifting of my Mz3 - once fully set up with the braces - its was fantastic.
khushy
Edited by khushy on Sunday 8th January 16:15
Khusky,
I agree on the fact that it needs to be driven hard to get the best out of it. the z4m more than the z3m. At anything less, the effort was just not worth it IMO.
When driven hard, everything comes together. If you can put up with the fact that under normal driving conditions, it is too stiff and too physical and relish the occasions where you can properly use the car and the engine, it will be the car to buy at these prices.
The problem with my driving and the roads around me is that those occasions are far and few in between. as such I only feel frustration with it.
Perhaps I've only had 1500 miles and I need another 15,000 to truly bond with the car. I suspect I'll never know..
Half of me really wants to SORN it at a friend's place so I can dust it off and drive it again in 5 years just to see.... It costs about the same as a set of replacement PCCB discs all round
I agree on the fact that it needs to be driven hard to get the best out of it. the z4m more than the z3m. At anything less, the effort was just not worth it IMO.
When driven hard, everything comes together. If you can put up with the fact that under normal driving conditions, it is too stiff and too physical and relish the occasions where you can properly use the car and the engine, it will be the car to buy at these prices.
The problem with my driving and the roads around me is that those occasions are far and few in between. as such I only feel frustration with it.
Perhaps I've only had 1500 miles and I need another 15,000 to truly bond with the car. I suspect I'll never know..
Half of me really wants to SORN it at a friend's place so I can dust it off and drive it again in 5 years just to see.... It costs about the same as a set of replacement PCCB discs all round
khooni said:
I just didn't get on with the steering or the stiff ride. Despite being a rigid car with fast steering (fastest before the 1m came up), it was a physical car to drive. The steering was heavy and you had to drive around the understeer even at moderate speeds. The gear change was also notchy. As I found out, these are all things that magazine testers pointed out, and well known; the z4-forum guys love the car for it's manliness (ie german TVR tag). Whilst, it feels faster than the spyder in a straight line (and my spyder is light), i became frustrated with the driving dynamics
Pretty much the exact same reasons I got rid of my z4mc, oh and the stupid clutch!Being honest I don't miss much about it apart from the economy, it was positively frugal compared to my C2S... Well and possiibly the newness mine was only 3 months old when I got it I'm a little disappointed on the 911 build quality, though this seems a common them with pretty much all new cars I've been exposed to( my 2 year old vw is full of rattles!!!)
Koing said:
Too stiff and too physical?
I still have my S2000 and it's fairly physical and stiff, but thats how I like the feel. My E46 M3 feels soft in comparison and the steering feels too light.
Test drove a 7GT3 and that just felt immense...in a year or so.
Koing
I think BMW did it on purpose. It feels nothing like the e46 m3 or CSL or even the 1M...(whom this has been compared to, wrongly IMO)I still have my S2000 and it's fairly physical and stiff, but thats how I like the feel. My E46 M3 feels soft in comparison and the steering feels too light.
Test drove a 7GT3 and that just felt immense...in a year or so.
Koing
They seem to know that they put a pretty much bomb proof engine, brakes and chassis together and to only let the truly committed enjoy.
Otherwise this car would have stolen the e90 m3's show for sure. It sure doesn't drive like any modern M BMW I know.
This feels sad because it makes me seem like a wimp.....
PS: It is different from being a race car like the GT3 Rs, it is hardcore from a different perspective
damn... did i talk you out of buying one?
I have had this discussion before. The fact is once you have driven the CR, you know how good it can be.
Is the z4m as good? Not to me. Does it mean the z4m is inferior? Only if you care about a car being easy to drive fast (which by all accounts, the CR is the NEO).
which is actually why there are so many 911 enthusiasts, a lot of folks don't think like me and actually like their cars difficult and scary. It gives them a sense of achievement, of taming the "beast".
I just don't fit into that group. Given your account of the vintage 911, I suppose I'll be very wary of older porsches.
maybe this is less hardcore than your old 911, maybe this will be magic for you, I can only speak for myself and there's really only 1 way to find out.
It does look blinding good and is a shape that will age well with time as it has classic proportions + it has THE engine.
In a straight line, it is more than a match for my c63, believe it or not......
I have had this discussion before. The fact is once you have driven the CR, you know how good it can be.
Is the z4m as good? Not to me. Does it mean the z4m is inferior? Only if you care about a car being easy to drive fast (which by all accounts, the CR is the NEO).
which is actually why there are so many 911 enthusiasts, a lot of folks don't think like me and actually like their cars difficult and scary. It gives them a sense of achievement, of taming the "beast".
I just don't fit into that group. Given your account of the vintage 911, I suppose I'll be very wary of older porsches.
maybe this is less hardcore than your old 911, maybe this will be magic for you, I can only speak for myself and there's really only 1 way to find out.
It does look blinding good and is a shape that will age well with time as it has classic proportions + it has THE engine.
In a straight line, it is more than a match for my c63, believe it or not......
khooni said:
damn... did i talk you out of buying one?
Hell man I've been around these parts long enough for you to know I never do anything as simple as take advice!I have driven one, but not on track or on the limit. The "German tvr" comments interest me, as after driving a mates I thought it was a pussycat. It had loads of power (red rose engine thingy) but as long as you were sensible it was fine.
I think I expected the z to be either be like a bit like my csl?
khooni said:
I think BMW did it on purpose. It feels nothing like the e46 m3 or CSL or even the 1M...(whom this has been compared to, wrongly IMO)
They seem to know that they put a pretty much bomb proof engine, brakes and chassis together and to only let the truly committed enjoy.
Otherwise this car would have stolen the e90 m3's show for sure. It sure doesn't drive like any modern M BMW I know.
This feels sad because it makes me seem like a wimp.....
PS: It is different from being a race car like the GT3 Rs, it is hardcore from a different perspective
By BMW making it on purpose you meant it being stiff and physical? Interesting.They seem to know that they put a pretty much bomb proof engine, brakes and chassis together and to only let the truly committed enjoy.
Otherwise this car would have stolen the e90 m3's show for sure. It sure doesn't drive like any modern M BMW I know.
This feels sad because it makes me seem like a wimp.....
PS: It is different from being a race car like the GT3 Rs, it is hardcore from a different perspective
I'd expect a 2 seater to out do the coupe of the E90 M3 imo. It's a decent chunk lighter and a totally different market.
Good to get someone else's perspective.
Koing
I think having covered 46k miles in a Z4MC and having owned various other M-cars I can comment a little.
It is the last true small ///M car. End of story. It is the last ///M car which is quicker around the track with the DSC set to off. It is the last ///M car where you get a chasis, stonking engine and drive train and the rest comes for free. It is also the last ///M car where you have to get stuck in, you have to steer it on the throttle, you have to be quick with your steering inputs, you have to think about transfer of weight and how to make it work in your favour. If you want an easy car to drive - get a mid engined Pork...
Btw, just sold my Z4MC today as we exchanged on a house on Friday... I miss the car terribly... Never thought I would like it so much when I bought her in 2007...
PS. In all my laps of the Ring in it, it has never been passed by either a Gayman nor a Porxster...
Just buy one...
It is the last true small ///M car. End of story. It is the last ///M car which is quicker around the track with the DSC set to off. It is the last ///M car where you get a chasis, stonking engine and drive train and the rest comes for free. It is also the last ///M car where you have to get stuck in, you have to steer it on the throttle, you have to be quick with your steering inputs, you have to think about transfer of weight and how to make it work in your favour. If you want an easy car to drive - get a mid engined Pork...
Btw, just sold my Z4MC today as we exchanged on a house on Friday... I miss the car terribly... Never thought I would like it so much when I bought her in 2007...
PS. In all my laps of the Ring in it, it has never been passed by either a Gayman nor a Porxster...
Just buy one...
Edited by Cheburator mk2 on Sunday 8th January 20:48
cragswinter said:
Hell man I've been around these parts long enough for you to know I never do anything as simple as take advice!
I have driven one, but not on track or on the limit. The "German tvr" comments interest me, as after driving a mates I thought it was a pussycat. It had loads of power (red rose engine thingy) but as long as you were sensible it was fine.
I think I expected the z to be either be like a bit like my csl?
see what I mean. you think it's a pussy cat and I find it challenging. Must be a novice driver thingy....I have driven one, but not on track or on the limit. The "German tvr" comments interest me, as after driving a mates I thought it was a pussycat. It had loads of power (red rose engine thingy) but as long as you were sensible it was fine.
I think I expected the z to be either be like a bit like my csl?
wow. can't believe you got rid of yours Cheburator. must be painful.
and I mean every last bit.........
Cheburator mk2 said:
It is the last true small ///M car. End of story. It is the last ///M car which is quicker around the track with the DSC set to off. It is the last ///M car where you get a chasis, stinking engine and drive train and the rest comes for free. It is also the last ///M car where you have to get stuck in, you have to steer it on the throttle, you have to be quick with your steering inputs, you have to think about transfer of weight and how to make it work in your favour. If you want an easy car to drive - get a mid engined Pork...
Every last bit I agree.. .....and I mean every last bit.........
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