Discussion
Hi all
This is my first post on the forum, (Hello!), although I have been reading on here for a long time now as Iam looking to buy my first TVR. (Cerbera)
I know from reading other threads that this might divide the room but as there isnt (i looked and couldnt find..) a thread directly comparing the different cars, I would ask as it wold greatly help me deciding what route to go down.
A bit of background from me.
Im 29 and work in London so this will be my weekend car for a bit of fun and will be the second car in the family asy wide has the daily hack but would need to drive the TVR on occasions. I have always owned classic cars and currently have a few classic VW's, one of which was my daily car so im used to big bills, unreliability and the quirks that come with owning non mainstream vehicles.
So, given all that, I would like to get general feedback on the differences of the cars and pro's and cons (fact and opinion) on owning and running these cars.
I would like to add that I am still yet to drive any Cerbera's so this will be something I plan to do in the coming weeks but I want to go in open minded and with solid info from existing owners so I dont mess the sellers about.
So which car should I choose and why?
How do they differ to drive?
Are they the same to run and repair?
Is one more likely to kill me that the other?
Thank you in advance and let the debate/arguing begin!!
This is my first post on the forum, (Hello!), although I have been reading on here for a long time now as Iam looking to buy my first TVR. (Cerbera)
I know from reading other threads that this might divide the room but as there isnt (i looked and couldnt find..) a thread directly comparing the different cars, I would ask as it wold greatly help me deciding what route to go down.
A bit of background from me.
Im 29 and work in London so this will be my weekend car for a bit of fun and will be the second car in the family asy wide has the daily hack but would need to drive the TVR on occasions. I have always owned classic cars and currently have a few classic VW's, one of which was my daily car so im used to big bills, unreliability and the quirks that come with owning non mainstream vehicles.
So, given all that, I would like to get general feedback on the differences of the cars and pro's and cons (fact and opinion) on owning and running these cars.
I would like to add that I am still yet to drive any Cerbera's so this will be something I plan to do in the coming weeks but I want to go in open minded and with solid info from existing owners so I dont mess the sellers about.
So which car should I choose and why?
How do they differ to drive?
Are they the same to run and repair?
Is one more likely to kill me that the other?
Thank you in advance and let the debate/arguing begin!!
Edited by fr0zent0ast on Monday 9th January 15:10
I would PM this chap here looks like a good deal to be had here.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Yeah he was saying it could just be the lamda's and he might try to get it running best to speak to the owner.
I have a 4.2 V8 It is great fun Never driven a sp6 Cerb but have had a go in a tuscan sp6 i like both engines both are plenty fast best to go drive both and make your own mind up what you want out of it.
I have a 4.2 V8 It is great fun Never driven a sp6 Cerb but have had a go in a tuscan sp6 i like both engines both are plenty fast best to go drive both and make your own mind up what you want out of it.
I'm pretty new here but I have driven a '96 4.2 and now own a '00 4.5.
The 4.2 was mildly tuned and definitely more tricky to drive. Downshifts needed rev matching and heel and toe etc. Fun but not always what you want for London driving. As a weekend only car dare I say it perhaps a better choice... hmm
My 4.5 is MUCH better mannered at low speed. The clutch action is lighter and it feels more modern.
I'd have to say neither is ideal as a London car. They need to stretch their legs and run quite hot.
However these things are bought with the heart so never let practicalities get in the way of your decision.
The 4.2 was mildly tuned and definitely more tricky to drive. Downshifts needed rev matching and heel and toe etc. Fun but not always what you want for London driving. As a weekend only car dare I say it perhaps a better choice... hmm
My 4.5 is MUCH better mannered at low speed. The clutch action is lighter and it feels more modern.
I'd have to say neither is ideal as a London car. They need to stretch their legs and run quite hot.
However these things are bought with the heart so never let practicalities get in the way of your decision.
I think you will find that those who have a Speed Six will prefer them and those that have a V8 will prefer them also.
It all depends on what you prefer once behind the wheel and what is the best you can get for your money. Finding a good one is the challenge, they are out there but, driving a few will seperate the good from the bad. Have a good look through the paper work as well, New clutch and shocks (£1800) engine rebuild (V8/Sp6) worth getting and check the chassis for rust. I would suggest buying as new as possible wether it be a V8 or a Speed Six they are truly great cars in either guise but can aso require a bit of spannering and head scratching but DO IT it is very rewarding.
It all depends on what you prefer once behind the wheel and what is the best you can get for your money. Finding a good one is the challenge, they are out there but, driving a few will seperate the good from the bad. Have a good look through the paper work as well, New clutch and shocks (£1800) engine rebuild (V8/Sp6) worth getting and check the chassis for rust. I would suggest buying as new as possible wether it be a V8 or a Speed Six they are truly great cars in either guise but can aso require a bit of spannering and head scratching but DO IT it is very rewarding.
WARNING: Cerberas are addictive!!! 
A Cerbera is just raw power! The Speed6 is still more than capable of killing you, the 4.5 can just kill you quicker...
The Speed6 is possibly a little more refined and easier to get on with as a 'car' but there is probably not much in it. The Speed6s are generally slightly cheaper as they picked up a bad reputation with engine problems but recently it has been shown that it is now possible to overcome these 'issues'.
The AJP V8 is reconed to be a very reliable/strong engine but either way, they all need regular TLC.
My advice would be to:
A Cerbera is just raw power! The Speed6 is still more than capable of killing you, the 4.5 can just kill you quicker...
The Speed6 is possibly a little more refined and easier to get on with as a 'car' but there is probably not much in it. The Speed6s are generally slightly cheaper as they picked up a bad reputation with engine problems but recently it has been shown that it is now possible to overcome these 'issues'.
The AJP V8 is reconed to be a very reliable/strong engine but either way, they all need regular TLC.
My advice would be to:
- Read up on the cars, buying guides, etc...
- Have a poke around the classifieds to see what sort of money they're going for.
- Decide if you want a 'mint' car or one that needs a little 'TLC'.
- Set yourself a budget.
- Go & have a look...
I agree that SP6 owners will think they are best and likewise for V8 owners but there MUST be big differences between them and this is what Iam trying to figure out.
My heart says V8 but my head may say SP6 as it might be "easier" to drive?
I spoke with a SP6 seller and asked him to view the car but he was adamant that if i didnt want a SP6 specifically then he wouldnt see me as I would be wasting his time.
SP6's also seem to be cheaper to purchase.... there must be a reason for this?
My heart says V8 but my head may say SP6 as it might be "easier" to drive?
I spoke with a SP6 seller and asked him to view the car but he was adamant that if i didnt want a SP6 specifically then he wouldnt see me as I would be wasting his time.
SP6's also seem to be cheaper to purchase.... there must be a reason for this?
Edited by fr0zent0ast on Monday 9th January 16:37
Thanks for the advice Camel_Landy.
I understand Iam not buying an every day car that will need TLC and servicing, so this is OK. Iam also not the best with a spanner so it would be looked after by specialist and not me.
My budget is ideally £15k with some money squirrelled away to keep it alive
I have read the buying guides so know what to look out for in terms of chassis condition etc, I just dont know which car to choose so will def try to drive as many as I can.
Keep it coming guys, its all really helpful.
Thanks!
I understand Iam not buying an every day car that will need TLC and servicing, so this is OK. Iam also not the best with a spanner so it would be looked after by specialist and not me.
My budget is ideally £15k with some money squirrelled away to keep it alive
I have read the buying guides so know what to look out for in terms of chassis condition etc, I just dont know which car to choose so will def try to drive as many as I can.
Keep it coming guys, its all really helpful.
Thanks!
fr0zent0ast said:
I agree that SP6 owners will think they are best and likewise for V8 owners but there MUST be big differences between them and this is what Iam trying to figure out.
My heart says V8 but my head may say SP6 as it might be "easier" to drive?
I spoke with a SP6 seller and asked him to view the car but he was adamant that if i didnt want a SP6 specifically then he wouldnt see me as I would be wasting his time.
SP6's also seem to be cheaper to purchase.... there must be a reason for this?
SP6 engines got a bad reputation when they first came out due to bad componets used in the build. Fortunatley those days are in the past now(ish) but if you are concerened get one with a rebuild. V8s tend to be a bit more expensive as the V8 is seen by many as the Daddy!!. But this means that there might be an opportunity to get a GOOD speed six which is newer, with the newer upgrades such as seats, lights and spider alloys. I drove a few V8s before I bought mine, I wanted a V8 but in the end I found a cracking SP6 that ticked all the boxes and having come from a Tuscan SP6 i was comfortable with that unit. So I would say don't get too bogged down in the engine debate which ever option you go for it will impress I'm sure. Look for the best all round package. Just my opinion.My heart says V8 but my head may say SP6 as it might be "easier" to drive?
I spoke with a SP6 seller and asked him to view the car but he was adamant that if i didnt want a SP6 specifically then he wouldnt see me as I would be wasting his time.
SP6's also seem to be cheaper to purchase.... there must be a reason for this?
Edited by fr0zent0ast on Monday 9th January 16:37
Hi,
I recently purchased a 97 4.2 and its a bit of a grump at low rpm and you will probably find like me that you need time to get used to the tricky clutch and changing into 1st (2nd is fine when rolling in most cars!) But get it up and running and it really is an amazing car.
I understand that later 4.2's have a more refined cam profile so they are possibly a little smoother at the lower end but they maybe also a little less raw in the middle/upper delivery.
You are doing the right thing by doing your research and get it done now because the trouble is the first time you go and see one of these, be it a SP6 or V8 you might have no choice but to buy it!
I recently purchased a 97 4.2 and its a bit of a grump at low rpm and you will probably find like me that you need time to get used to the tricky clutch and changing into 1st (2nd is fine when rolling in most cars!) But get it up and running and it really is an amazing car.
I understand that later 4.2's have a more refined cam profile so they are possibly a little smoother at the lower end but they maybe also a little less raw in the middle/upper delivery.
You are doing the right thing by doing your research and get it done now because the trouble is the first time you go and see one of these, be it a SP6 or V8 you might have no choice but to buy it!
Sounds like you are entering into the Cerbera arena with the right attitude - ask lots of questions first; review prevous threads (many an evening to be spent getting genned up...); join the TVRCC and try to attend some of their local meets - you will get chatting to some owners who will probably take you for a passenger ride in theirs....; try and drive a few etc.
Buy on condition rather than age, and if the right car in the right condition comes up at the right (negotiated) price - then go for it: this will prob be more important than worrying too much over 4.0 4.2 or 4.5 concerns.....
... but having said that the Speed 6 and AJP V8 engines do have some different characteristics. Both should have enough power to really feel fast (unless you are used to fast motorbikes or very quick cars) with approx 350bhp in something that weighs not much over a ton (not sure - 1200-1300kg?) with no electronic driving aides (unless you count electric adjustable mirrors, and in most power steering....). The Speed 6 has been described as more refined (but it's still a very raw car) than the AJP, with perhaps better manners at low revs. The AJP V8 is a flat plane crank (like Fezza V8s) so thrives on revs rather than having the low down power of the Rover-based V8 (think more US muscle car sound).
However - any concerns about behaviour in town, smoothness and tractability at low revs, or the tendancy to run hot in traffic is fairly easy to address: Any decent re-map should give any of these engines much better manners, whilst retaining or probably enhancing the power delivery. The fans can also be programmed to kick in at lower temp and for shorter bursts with the ECU remap. I've had this done and have driven in through rush hour London traffic and it behaved itself (only had head gasket go when the bl
y temp sensor failed..... grrrrrr 
).
You are also right to think about maintaining a healthy "fighting fund" to keep the car well maintained and to fix all those niggles / inevitable issues. Sounds like I have similar attitude - I don't pretend to be a mechanic, and prefer to have my TVR looked after by a specialist who I get great service from, and I don't have the time or inclination to do lots of home-mechanicing on the car (work, family, etc). You'll not get a straight answer on this - but opinions on this forum keep mentioning approx £3K (GBP) each year - this may be higher some years / lower others - but consider it's going to need minor 6K and major 12K services, plus the inevitable things on a 10-15 year old car (e.g. fuel hoses need replacement (safety issue), brakes and pipes, coolant hoses, clutches, other corrosion issues. Keep an eye on the chassis as can hide a multitude of horrors (see the refurb threads to see what can happen to them).
BUT - they are fantastic to drive (when not frustrating you by not working) and own - if you think you want a Cerbera, then a test drive is just going to cement that feeling, and ownership is like addiction to hard drugs (major highs and exhillaration, also major lows and depressions, will take all of your money as well )
Buy on condition rather than age, and if the right car in the right condition comes up at the right (negotiated) price - then go for it: this will prob be more important than worrying too much over 4.0 4.2 or 4.5 concerns.....
... but having said that the Speed 6 and AJP V8 engines do have some different characteristics. Both should have enough power to really feel fast (unless you are used to fast motorbikes or very quick cars) with approx 350bhp in something that weighs not much over a ton (not sure - 1200-1300kg?) with no electronic driving aides (unless you count electric adjustable mirrors, and in most power steering....). The Speed 6 has been described as more refined (but it's still a very raw car) than the AJP, with perhaps better manners at low revs. The AJP V8 is a flat plane crank (like Fezza V8s) so thrives on revs rather than having the low down power of the Rover-based V8 (think more US muscle car sound).
However - any concerns about behaviour in town, smoothness and tractability at low revs, or the tendancy to run hot in traffic is fairly easy to address: Any decent re-map should give any of these engines much better manners, whilst retaining or probably enhancing the power delivery. The fans can also be programmed to kick in at lower temp and for shorter bursts with the ECU remap. I've had this done and have driven in through rush hour London traffic and it behaved itself (only had head gasket go when the bl
y temp sensor failed..... grrrrrr ).You are also right to think about maintaining a healthy "fighting fund" to keep the car well maintained and to fix all those niggles / inevitable issues. Sounds like I have similar attitude - I don't pretend to be a mechanic, and prefer to have my TVR looked after by a specialist who I get great service from, and I don't have the time or inclination to do lots of home-mechanicing on the car (work, family, etc). You'll not get a straight answer on this - but opinions on this forum keep mentioning approx £3K (GBP) each year - this may be higher some years / lower others - but consider it's going to need minor 6K and major 12K services, plus the inevitable things on a 10-15 year old car (e.g. fuel hoses need replacement (safety issue), brakes and pipes, coolant hoses, clutches, other corrosion issues. Keep an eye on the chassis as can hide a multitude of horrors (see the refurb threads to see what can happen to them).
BUT - they are fantastic to drive (when not frustrating you by not working) and own - if you think you want a Cerbera, then a test drive is just going to cement that feeling, and ownership is like addiction to hard drugs (major highs and exhillaration, also major lows and depressions, will take all of your money as well
)camel_landy said:
WARNING: Cerberas are addictive!!!
A Cerbera is just raw power! The Speed6 is still more than capable of killing you, the 4.5 can just kill you quicker...
The Speed6 is possibly a little more refined and easier to get on with as a 'car' but there is probably not much in it. The Speed6s are generally slightly cheaper as they picked up a bad reputation with engine problems but recently it has been shown that it is now possible to overcome these 'issues'.
The AJP V8 is reconed to be a very reliable/strong engine but either way, they all need regular TLC.
My advice would be to:
I was going to post as a speed 6 owner but this really sums it up, good sound advice.A Cerbera is just raw power! The Speed6 is still more than capable of killing you, the 4.5 can just kill you quicker...
The Speed6 is possibly a little more refined and easier to get on with as a 'car' but there is probably not much in it. The Speed6s are generally slightly cheaper as they picked up a bad reputation with engine problems but recently it has been shown that it is now possible to overcome these 'issues'.
The AJP V8 is reconed to be a very reliable/strong engine but either way, they all need regular TLC.
My advice would be to:
- Read up on the cars, buying guides, etc...
- Have a poke around the classifieds to see what sort of money they're going for.
- Decide if you want a 'mint' car or one that needs a little 'TLC'.
- Set yourself a budget.
- Go & have a look...
D
mikeinsheffield said:
You are also right to think about maintaining a healthy "fighting fund" to keep the car well maintained and to fix all those niggles / inevitable issues. Sounds like I have similar attitude - I don't pretend to be a mechanic, and prefer to have my TVR looked after by a specialist who I get great service from, and I don't have the time or inclination to do lots of home-mechanicing on the car (work, family, etc). You'll not get a straight answer on this - but opinions on this forum keep mentioning approx £3K (GBP) each year - this may be higher some years / lower others - but consider it's going to need minor 6K and major 12K services, plus the inevitable things on a 10-15 year old car (e.g. fuel hoses need replacement (safety issue), brakes and pipes, coolant hoses, clutches, other corrosion issues. Keep an eye on the chassis as can hide a multitude of horrors (see the refurb threads to see what can happen to them).
This is a very good point and i would make this a key Highlight on buying any Cerb.Cost can Vary as Mike has said i am a DIY owner like a few on here so we can keep costs down labour wise alot and i used to really enjoy working on them (second TVR around is getting on a bit now and same jobs lol). I am no where near 3k a year(well might be with all my upgrades this year
) But once the cars at a nice level i don't hope to see running costs like this. Thanks for all your comments and assistance guys, keep it coming its all really helpful!
It would be great to know what cars you all have and if any of you have owned both V8's and SP6's ...
At the moment my heart is saying V8 for the noise I have loved since a small boy but my head is saying that the SP6 might be an easier car to drive and might suit me better....
Obviously I wont know till I have driven some.
It would be great to know what cars you all have and if any of you have owned both V8's and SP6's ...
At the moment my heart is saying V8 for the noise I have loved since a small boy but my head is saying that the SP6 might be an easier car to drive and might suit me better....
Obviously I wont know till I have driven some.
I test drove both before i settled on the 4.5 V8, i thought the speed six was smoother & felt cleaner through the revs with 4 valves per cylinder as only 2 valves in the v8, both sounded awesome!
For me i wanted a V8 for my first TVR & nearly six years on i still love it.
They are tempremental motors & do need care,but when running well on a nice dry stretch of road they are sublime!
Good luck with your search you will not be disappointed with either.
The speed six rides better & has a slightly slower steering rack so feels slightly less direct & most prefer it from what i have read.
For me i wanted a V8 for my first TVR & nearly six years on i still love it.
They are tempremental motors & do need care,but when running well on a nice dry stretch of road they are sublime!
Good luck with your search you will not be disappointed with either.
The speed six rides better & has a slightly slower steering rack so feels slightly less direct & most prefer it from what i have read.
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