991 Carrera S - test drive report

[petermann]

Porsche Frankfurt kindly (foolishly?) handed me the keys to their test 991 Carrera S (with just 700kms on the clock) last week for the afternoon, telling me to turn out of the dealership, turn right, and head straight onto a derestricted section of autobahn, and that they'd see me in a few hours time...

There is little doubt that the new 991 is a masterful execution of modern technology. The car feels like it's on rails, the PDK gearbox is brilliant, the ride is comfortable, and there is little road noise (and when there is noise from the PSE, you're more than happy to live with it). But as enjoyable as the car is, and this might seem odd to say - the car was almost too perfect to put a smile on my face.

To me, a true sports car has to feel alive and be entertaining to drive, and I don't think the 991 does this. It is simply too refined to be exciting - perhaps the PDK gearbox was part of the issue (the electronic blip on downshifts not being as satisfying as a manual heel-toe) or perhaps the steering being a little bit too light (although I gather the car was fitted with servo plus). In fact, as far as I can tell, to make it fun as a regular car, you would have to take it to don't-get-three-points-but-go-straight-to-jail speeds on English roads.

And if you were to take it on track, I have little doubt it would have be seriously quick - but even though is as quick as a GT3 around the Nordschleife, I know which I'd pick.

There is another thread currently about the difference in price between a new Cayman S and new 991 - I currently drive a Cayman S (and have previously driven the 997 C2S and GT3, both of which are fantastic cars in their own right) and simply cannot justify the difference in price to get a 991.

[Mermaid]

Good summary, and by and large I concur with your views having driven the cars mentioned. I suspect the 991 will have more soul added at the next revamp.

At a 100mph, I had virtually no sensation i was travelling at that speed - that is dangerous to my licence.

The 911 has come of age, and many will like that.

[Gibbo205]

The more I read of the 991, the more it sounds like a GTR, hugely capable and superior of the outgoing 997, but has lost the involvement factor and grin factor the 997's had.

[Durzel]

That seems to be the general consensus in reviews too.

[nutcase]

Good write-up.

Apologies if it's been covered elsewhere, but has anyone figured one of these (in 'S' guise) yet, even unofficially?

I imagine it'll be something like 60 in 4.2, 100 in low 9's and 150 in 22.0 sec, but interested nonetheless.

[alphonso]

nutcase said:

Good write-up.

Apologies if it's been covered elsewhere, but has anyone figured one of these (in 'S' guise) yet, even unofficially?

I imagine it'll be something like 60 in 4.2, 100 in low 9's and 150 in 22.0 sec, but interested nonetheless.

C2s:
Top speed: 188 mph (304 km/h)
Acceleration from 0 - 100 km/h (0 - 62 mph): 4.5 s
Acceleration from 0 - 160 km/h (0 - 99 mph): 9.4 s
Flexibility (80-120 km/h) (50-75 mph) in 5th gear: 5.9 s
In-gear acceleration (80-120km/h) (50-75 mph):

C2:
Top speed: 179 mph (289 km/h)
Acceleration from 0 - 100 km/h (0 - 62 mph): 4.8 s
Acceleration from 0 - 160 km/h (0 - 99 mph): 10.4 s
Flexibility (80-120 km/h) (50-75 mph) in 5th gear: 6.4 s
In-gear acceleration (80-120km/h) (50-75 mph): -



if you go to http://www.porsche.com/uk/ ..scroll down to the bottom left and use the porsche comparision to get the stats

[alphonso]

sorry, forgot to include the stats with PDK..


C2
Top speed: 178 mph (287 km/h)
Acceleration from 0 - 100 km/h (0 - 62 mph): 4.6 s (4.4 s Sport+)
Acceleration from 0 - 160 km/h (0 - 99 mph): 10.0 s (9.7 s Sport+)
Flexibility (80-120 km/h) (50-75 mph) in 5th gear: -
In-gear acceleration (80-120km/h) (50-75 mph): 2.8 s

C2s
Top speed: 187 mph (302 km/h)
Acceleration from 0 - 100 km/h (0 - 62 mph): 4.3 s (4.1 s Sport+)
Acceleration from 0 - 160 km/h (0 - 99 mph): 9.0 s (8.7 s Sport+)
Flexibility (80-120 km/h) (50-75 mph) in 5th gear: -
In-gear acceleration (80-120km/h) (50-75 mph): 2.4 s

[david968s]

It seems to be the consensus on almost any new sports car. Look at the backlash against the Aventador - too easy to drive! That is progress for you. I wonder what would happen to 911 sales if they made the 991 a bit more like the 930 in character? The vast majority of buyers are not that interested in the kinds of things that people like us love in cars. At the price point of a new 911 most buyers will want to drive it every day in all sorts of situations. Is there are better sports car out there for today's roads than a 991 with PDK? Probably not. Goal achieved. On the plus side, more new 911s means more old 911s out there for people who want to cling on to the past! (and I am one of them, to an extent...)

[clorenzen]

The Porsche 991 is no longer a niche sportscar but is destined to a much broader audience and with every iteration of the 911 this becomes clearer. This however takes nothing away from the quality of the product itself. Very few cars attract such a broad customer base. Down the road where i live, there is a 65 year lady drivng a 911 and she is now on her third generation 911. It is just an incredible versatile product and with the 991 Porsche has moved the game yet again. If you only can have one car (and have no kids) with everyday usability there is not much else out there.

[jackal]

Do you not approach a 991 for what it is though ?

If i test drive one, i suspect that i will appraise it as an M5, Cayenne or GTR type car. I'm not going to view it as a weekend toy, like a 993, an exige or say an F430. As an everyday executive smoke that seats 4 and all ut drives itsef it must be amazing surely ?

[Maersk]

Seats 4! ? (snigger, guffaw)

[nutcase]

alphonso said:

C2s:
Top speed: 188 mph (304 km/h)
Acceleration from 0 - 100 km/h (0 - 62 mph): 4.5 s
Acceleration from 0 - 160 km/h (0 - 99 mph): 9.4 s
Flexibility (80-120 km/h) (50-75 mph) in 5th gear: 5.9 s
In-gear acceleration (80-120km/h) (50-75 mph):

C2:
Top speed: 179 mph (289 km/h)
Acceleration from 0 - 100 km/h (0 - 62 mph): 4.8 s
Acceleration from 0 - 160 km/h (0 - 99 mph): 10.4 s
Flexibility (80-120 km/h) (50-75 mph) in 5th gear: 6.4 s
In-gear acceleration (80-120km/h) (50-75 mph): -



if you go to http://www.porsche.com/uk/ ..scroll down to the bottom left and use the porsche comparision to get the stats

Cheers for this- but I was wondering about whether they'd yet been independently verified (i.e. magazine tested) to see if it'll do the official numbers.

[anonymous-user]

jackal said:

Do you not approach a 991 for what it is though ?

If i test drive one, i suspect that i will appraise it as an M5, Cayenne or GTR type car. I'm not going to view it as a weekend toy, like a 993, an exige or say an F430. As an everyday executive smoke that seats 4 and all ut drives itsef it must be amazing surely ?

Isn't that what the Panamera is supposed to be though? I'd appraise it as a 2+2 sports car and if it doesn't cut it as that then it's a fail.

[easter]

petermann said:

Porsche Frankfurt kindly (foolishly?) handed me the keys to their test 991 Carrera S (with just 700kms on the clock) last week for the afternoon, telling me to turn out of the dealership, turn right, and head straight onto a derestricted section of autobahn, and that they'd see me in a few hours time...

There is little doubt that the new 991 is a masterful execution of modern technology. The car feels like it's on rails, the PDK gearbox is brilliant, the ride is comfortable, and there is little road noise (and when there is noise from the PSE, you're more than happy to live with it). But as enjoyable as the car is, and this might seem odd to say - the car was almost too perfect to put a smile on my face.

To me, a true sports car has to feel alive and be entertaining to drive, and I don't think the 991 does this. It is simply too refined to be exciting - perhaps the PDK gearbox was part of the issue (the electronic blip on downshifts not being as satisfying as a manual heel-toe) or perhaps the steering being a little bit too light (although I gather the car was fitted with servo plus). In fact, as far as I can tell, to make it fun as a regular car, you would have to take it to don't-get-three-points-but-go-straight-to-jail speeds on English roads.

And if you were to take it on track, I have little doubt it would have be seriously quick - but even though is as quick as a GT3 around the Nordschleife, I know which I'd pick.

There is another thread currently about the difference in price between a new Cayman S and new 991 - I currently drive a Cayman S (and have previously driven the 997 C2S and GT3, both of which are fantastic cars in their own right) and simply cannot justify the difference in price to get a 991.

felt the same about my 2008 997 turbo . too precise not enough noise and needed to be doing well over 100 to feel anything ..997 c2s much more fun and dare i say it e46 m3 was even more fun !

[Wozy68]

I test drove the Cayman R about 6 months ago, it is a fab car with real grunt and fantastic handling.

I'm not such a great lover of modern cars, however I would guess the R was the best in breed ref 'feel', sense of speed and some soul compared to the rest of the Porsche range (well this side of a GT3/GT2 I'm guessing).

When I switched it off, shut the door and walked away I realised that I could be faster in it than any other car I've ever driven, and to boot I could be faster in a very easier kind of way.

The car was that good it flattered my ability, and because of that I realised for me, it would never be that enjoyable to own.

I guess to make a car have so much ability, safer and to be put into mass production, it becomes less involving as a car to enjoy.

Edited by Wozy68 on Tuesday 17th January 08:23

[IMI A]

I've always felt since the launch of Boxster and Cayman the only reason to buy a 911 is if you need the kiddy seats as the mid engined cars are much more fun to drive and better cars too IMO.

Had a look at the 991 a few days ago and was disappointed to note how the longer wheel base hasn't really translated into any more tangible rear legroom. Having said that I think the 991 is pretty but at £85k for a reasonably specced 991 C2 and £95k for a C2s its ridiculously overpriced. C2 should be £65k and C2s should be £75k with reasonable spec. If Nissan can sell the 2012 GTR for £75k badge aside the 991 should cost less if you look at both cars from an engineering perspective. Hats off to Porsche though if the punters are there at this price point.

[anonymous-user]

IMI A said:

I've always felt since the launch of Boxster and Cayman the only reason to buy a 911 is if you need the kiddy seats as the mid engined cars are much more fun to drive and better cars too IMO.

That's the only reason I didn't buy a Boxster and went for a 911 instead. I wouldn't say they are much more fun to drive than 911s, but they are a hell of a lot cheaper!

[IMI A]

uktrailmonster said:

IMI A said:

I've always felt since the launch of Boxster and Cayman the only reason to buy a 911 is if you need the kiddy seats as the mid engined cars are much more fun to drive and better cars too IMO.

That's the only reason I didn't buy a Boxster and went for a 911 instead. I wouldn't say they are much more fun to drive than 911s, but they are a hell of a lot cheaper!

Chuck both a boxster/cayman into a corner and its amazing how well they handle. Almost telepathic. 996/997 cumbersome in comparison IMO. Money/family requirements aside if I had a choice I'd take the mid engined cars out on an afternoon hoon.

[jackal]

uktrailmonster said:

jackal said:

Do you not approach a 991 for what it is though ?

If i test drive one, i suspect that i will appraise it as an M5, Cayenne or GTR type car. I'm not going to view it as a weekend toy, like a 993, an exige or say an F430. As an everyday executive smoke that seats 4 and all ut drives itsef it must be amazing surely ?

Isn't that what the Panamera is supposed to be though? I'd appraise it as a 2+2 sports car and if it doesn't cut it as that then it's a fail.

you're getting caught up in the seats thing, ignore that for a second

I am saying that surely one should now approach the 991 like a generalist everyday performance car (albeit an expensive one) rather than moaning at how easy it is to drive, the reduction in steering feel, the lack of characterful rear engined dynamics, the lack of low speed involvement. All cars are like that now and the 911 has joined them. It's now the world most accomplished 'jack of all trades' sports car. If you want low speed involvement, deep layers of driver-car interaction, acres of character and specialness etc.. then change the shopping list or stick something else in the garage for that.

[franki68]

nutcase said:

Cheers for this- but I was wondering about whether they'd yet been independently verified (i.e. magazine tested) to see if it'll do the official numbers.

Some american mags have and one of the german mags,the yanks got it to 60 in under 4 secs and to 100 in under 9 ,'s' model with pdk ,but they test 1 up whereas the likes of autocar test 2 up so figures would be fractionally slower.