How fast is fast??
Discussion
Im after buying a Porsche after i return from Afghanistan in Oct. Im torn, and have been for past few months between a Cayman S or a 996 C4S.
I have test driven a OPC used Cayman S with Tip and although it wasnt a longish drive, liked the way it drove and its speed etc.
But i have to admit i do like the look of the C4S and my past 2 cars being 4x4 (Subaru Impreza and now a A3 3.2V6 Quattro)im leaning towards the C4S but got a few months yet to decide.
I have read a couple of posts where people have driven a C4S and the quotes go along the line of "its not exactly fast".
The Impreza and Audi have 2 different driving characteristics. With the Impreza you have to work the gears to get the turbo on song, but with the V6, in almost any gear there is smooth acceleration. But both cars although fast in my eyes, surely a C4S is quicker. I know that these posters maybe used to the likes of 996tt or equivalent but surely you cannot class the C4S as slow??
I have yet to have a C4S drive, but i hope if i go for the C4S im not disappointed.
So from any C4S owners, how fast are they?
By way im the wrong side of 40 so although some people think i should of grown out of "going fast", im so sad that i made extra effort to go through the Hindhead Tunnel the other day just to listen to my Audi go through! Sad i know!!! But it was 50miles out of my journey to do it!!
I have test driven a OPC used Cayman S with Tip and although it wasnt a longish drive, liked the way it drove and its speed etc.
But i have to admit i do like the look of the C4S and my past 2 cars being 4x4 (Subaru Impreza and now a A3 3.2V6 Quattro)im leaning towards the C4S but got a few months yet to decide.
I have read a couple of posts where people have driven a C4S and the quotes go along the line of "its not exactly fast".
The Impreza and Audi have 2 different driving characteristics. With the Impreza you have to work the gears to get the turbo on song, but with the V6, in almost any gear there is smooth acceleration. But both cars although fast in my eyes, surely a C4S is quicker. I know that these posters maybe used to the likes of 996tt or equivalent but surely you cannot class the C4S as slow??
I have yet to have a C4S drive, but i hope if i go for the C4S im not disappointed.
So from any C4S owners, how fast are they?
By way im the wrong side of 40 so although some people think i should of grown out of "going fast", im so sad that i made extra effort to go through the Hindhead Tunnel the other day just to listen to my Audi go through! Sad i know!!! But it was 50miles out of my journey to do it!!
I had a 2001 Impreza UK300 with ppp, air etc, (prob 250-270hp) and had a good race one evening (from standstill) against a 996 C4S. Porsche had a passenger. I was on me Sweeny. Launched the Scooby spot on from start, but only kept with the C4S up to approx 90ish. It was bye bye Irene then. In the Porks favour 
eta - in todays money, the C4S isn't exactly 'quick', but does look and sound VERY good. A Cayman S will easily be as quick, but doesn't look as good imvho.
eta - in todays money, the C4S isn't exactly 'quick', but does look and sound VERY good. A Cayman S will easily be as quick, but doesn't look as good imvho.
Edited by Phucker on Thursday 12th January 20:33
Based on cars I have had: tvr griff 500, RS6, M3 etc the C4S is fast enough for road use. My RS6 had more 'grunt' in the mid range, but a 911 just gets under your skin in a way the others don't and they do handle well around the twisties.
Cayman s or C4S? Sure both are great. But you need to tick the 911 box sometime.
Cayman s or C4S? Sure both are great. But you need to tick the 911 box sometime.
How fast do you want to go? Whats your definition of fast? How fast can you drive?
If you want seat of the pants, straight line, WOW, then its a Turbo in pretty much any guise.
My view is that a 996C4S is plenty to make some seriously rapid progress. If you cant trott along at serious licence losing pace in one of these, then you cant drive fast.
But then, some think 500bhp is a bit lame and tune their cars to 700bhp+! Go figure.
MTR
If you want seat of the pants, straight line, WOW, then its a Turbo in pretty much any guise.
My view is that a 996C4S is plenty to make some seriously rapid progress. If you cant trott along at serious licence losing pace in one of these, then you cant drive fast.
But then, some think 500bhp is a bit lame and tune their cars to 700bhp+! Go figure.
MTR
mollytherocker said:
How fast do you want to go? Whats your definition of fast? How fast can you drive?
If you want seat of the pants, straight line, WOW, then its a Turbo in pretty much any guise.
My view is that a 996C4S is plenty to make some seriously rapid progress. If you cant trott along at serious licence losing pace in one of these, then you cant drive fast.
But then, some think 500bhp is a bit lame and tune their cars to 700bhp+! Go figure.
MTR
+1,If you want seat of the pants, straight line, WOW, then its a Turbo in pretty much any guise.
My view is that a 996C4S is plenty to make some seriously rapid progress. If you cant trott along at serious licence losing pace in one of these, then you cant drive fast.
But then, some think 500bhp is a bit lame and tune their cars to 700bhp+! Go figure.
MTR
My C4S was plenty fast enough for road use and secure also, also overbraked for HP compared with same chassis Turbo which also helps if you are the last of the late brakers. If you need to go faster take some driving tuition-- the cheapest option.
All 700hp does is get you to the corners faster the clever bit is getting around them!!
In my camp there are 3 different types of performance driver.
1. That just likes to feel heart stopping g force in a straight line, on public high ways does it in a straight line with no one about and stops well well before the cars top end capability.
2 The type of driver who isn't interested in acceleration and top end speed but loves going arround bends very quickly, bends by their nature are unpredictable.
3 The type of driver who likes to do both.
I see myself as in number 1. Top end speed is lost on me, dont need it or require it. As is the ability to generate .6 to 0.9 lateral g forces going arround corners also lost on me too. I have just as much fun in my 300 TDi be it at a fraction of the speed.
Just because the speed limit is 70 doesn't mean you cant use 650 bhp because you can.You can still hit 60 in less than 3 seconds, have the buz and still make your self feel sick overtaking a truck doing 30 on a A road and still keep within the legal limits ( ok being honest , very very hard to do so ).
You have to ask your self what do you want out of a car.
Power is subjective, if we were all honest a 100 bhp car should do us all day long. Is there truly a need for any car to to anything else apart from take us from A-B in comfort.
For me the never ending quest for power and pure acceleration has been life long curse and I dont suppose it will ever really stop.
1. That just likes to feel heart stopping g force in a straight line, on public high ways does it in a straight line with no one about and stops well well before the cars top end capability.
2 The type of driver who isn't interested in acceleration and top end speed but loves going arround bends very quickly, bends by their nature are unpredictable.
3 The type of driver who likes to do both.
I see myself as in number 1. Top end speed is lost on me, dont need it or require it. As is the ability to generate .6 to 0.9 lateral g forces going arround corners also lost on me too. I have just as much fun in my 300 TDi be it at a fraction of the speed.
Just because the speed limit is 70 doesn't mean you cant use 650 bhp because you can.You can still hit 60 in less than 3 seconds, have the buz and still make your self feel sick overtaking a truck doing 30 on a A road and still keep within the legal limits ( ok being honest , very very hard to do so ).
You have to ask your self what do you want out of a car.
Power is subjective, if we were all honest a 100 bhp car should do us all day long. Is there truly a need for any car to to anything else apart from take us from A-B in comfort.
For me the never ending quest for power and pure acceleration has been life long curse and I dont suppose it will ever really stop.
Edited by Sunnysidebb on Thursday 12th January 22:21
Sunnysidebb said:
For me the never ending quest for power and pure acceleration has been life long and i dont suppose it will ever really stop.
I find massive power ultimately frustrating. You spend more time off the gas than on it! Dont get me wrong, I like the rush as much as the next man. Its the roller coaster rush.But, I find it so much more satisfying being able to wring a cars neck, and trying to extract as much performance from it as possible. Acceleration is only one aspect of performance.
Its what makes a good hot hatch so much fun.
MTR
Cheers for replies. When it comes to speed its not the top speed i go for. After all my A3 will do 155 according to the book but ive never even got near that. I prefer a cars handling in twistys etc with good acceleration out of corners.
The trouble is both cars, with the Caymans good handling chassis will achieve that and the C4S in the way it can put down the more power of the 2 out of corners etc.
As a point of note, i consider myself a fairly competent driver, when not in Afghanistan and doing normal soldier stuff ive test driven a fair few mil vehicles. So i do understand the dynamics of a cars handling. After all a 15tonne armoured truck will understeer like hell when doing a 80km/h lane change exercise as i found out a few years ago!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QGXjxSTCvw&fea...
As i found out with the Subaru, it used to understeer a lot whereas the Audi i think is a bit more planted but then thats mainly due to increased weight over the front end.
I keep on edging towards CS4's at moment.
The trouble is both cars, with the Caymans good handling chassis will achieve that and the C4S in the way it can put down the more power of the 2 out of corners etc.
As a point of note, i consider myself a fairly competent driver, when not in Afghanistan and doing normal soldier stuff ive test driven a fair few mil vehicles. So i do understand the dynamics of a cars handling. After all a 15tonne armoured truck will understeer like hell when doing a 80km/h lane change exercise as i found out a few years ago!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QGXjxSTCvw&fea...
As i found out with the Subaru, it used to understeer a lot whereas the Audi i think is a bit more planted but then thats mainly due to increased weight over the front end.
I keep on edging towards CS4's at moment.
mollytherocker said:
Sunnysidebb said:
For me the never ending quest for power and pure acceleration has been life long and i dont suppose it will ever really stop.
I find massive power ultimately frustrating. You spend more time off the gas than on it! Dont get me wrong, I like the rush as much as the next man. Its the roller coaster rush.But, I find it so much more satisfying being able to wring a cars neck, and trying to extract as much performance from it as possible. Acceleration is only one aspect of performance.
Its what makes a good hot hatch so much fun.
MTR
I do agree with you that massive power can be frustrating because it is very difficult when conditions allow to drive anywhere near its limits, although today that is rare in any car. I sometimes have more fun in my 968, or as the guys in my garage know, "the tank" a 1.8 Zafari that upsets a lot of people because either they don't know how fast they can safely managed bends or don't have the bottle. For a short while I used to drive a 1.2 corsa - great fun because it is a car you can drive with your foot to the floor.
But I do need my fix now and then
I find my C4S plenty fast enough on UK roads, and it's a Tiptronic. Drove the B660 earlier this week, and even on the shorter straights I was lifting after a couple of seconds, being the law-abiding chap that I am. If you wanted, I would have guessed you could easily see 140+ on the longer ones. This is just a guess of course....
A 996 C4S will obliterate your Audi A3 everywhere (acceleration, corners, brakes) - so I think you'll notice a significant step up in performance (unless it's a tiptronic cabrio and then only because they're much heavier). The Subarus are better than almost all porkers on a bumpy backroad (thanks to their uber long travel suspension) and they're great overtakers when on boost, but feel a little ordinary compared with a Porsche IMHO.(And yes I've got an A3, a Subaru WRX and a 911 in my garage).
So if you want something that's a challenge to drive - buy the 911, but the Cayman has the most balanced handling, albeit with slightly less "character".
So if you want something that's a challenge to drive - buy the 911, but the Cayman has the most balanced handling, albeit with slightly less "character".
Drive them both, on all sorts of roads (motorways, twisties, town - traffic!) See what you like best....
I love my Cayman S but never driven a 911.
My mate used to have a C4S and it felt quick to me back then.
I don't think the Cayman feels fast but you know its not slow, then again I'm used to bike now.
The best way to buy a car is like a woman shopping for an outfit.
Go to different shops and try on many different variations, with different colours, styles and accessories. See what fits best and how it feels....
I love my Cayman S but never driven a 911.
My mate used to have a C4S and it felt quick to me back then.
I don't think the Cayman feels fast but you know its not slow, then again I'm used to bike now.
The best way to buy a car is like a woman shopping for an outfit.
Go to different shops and try on many different variations, with different colours, styles and accessories. See what fits best and how it feels....
petop said:
I have read a couple of posts where people have driven a C4S and the quotes go along the line of "its not exactly fast".
Honestly I wouldn't read too much into that. They are very quick cars on UK roads. Straight line accel may not be quite as jaw-dropping as a turbo, but it isn't exactly slow by any means and the sound is glorious (especially with a sports exhaust). I considered a C4S 18 months ago when I bought my Cayman S. I never really entertained the idea because I just don't like the look of 996's, even though the C4S is the best looking of the ugly bunch. When I thought objectively about it though, I decided that a Cayman S which was 4 years younger than the equivalent priced C4S with similar mileage, had very similar performance figures but handled much better, was the car for me. Couple this with the fact that I prefer RWD to 4WD and the decision was easy.
You talk about going fast... I would reckon that a 996 C4S would have the Cayman S licked in a drag race but in almost every other situation, especially B-road twisties, the Cayman S would leave the 996 C4S for dead.
That's pretty much the logic I used when I bought mine.
RD
BTW - I still want to tick the 911 box but it will be with a RWD variant, not a 4WD one. At the time I was buying, decent 997 C2S cars were still a good £10K more than my budget but maybe next time.
You talk about going fast... I would reckon that a 996 C4S would have the Cayman S licked in a drag race but in almost every other situation, especially B-road twisties, the Cayman S would leave the 996 C4S for dead.
That's pretty much the logic I used when I bought mine.
RD
BTW - I still want to tick the 911 box but it will be with a RWD variant, not a 4WD one. At the time I was buying, decent 997 C2S cars were still a good £10K more than my budget but maybe next time.
Speed through the twisty roads is mostly down to driver ability/nerve. For example, and I am far from being another Senna/Schumacher/etc, at the Porsche Centre at Silverstone in a Cayman S, I was able to catch/overtake a 997 turbo. That was at the end of the half-day, so the other driver will have had their instruction too and it was not their cooling down lap.
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