Snapped/ruptured anterior cruciate ligament
Discussion
Hi there, bit of a lurker on these forums but having read through there's some knowledgeable people on here whom might know about what I've managed to do playing football.
I had an arthroscopy yesterday after discussions with my consultant (luckily on medical insurance, otherwise I would have been waiting till April apparently) that he believed I'd damaged my cartilage due to the impact from a bad landing in football. Turns out that not only had I damaged my cartilage, but that my ACL is also in two pieces. Fun!
So, googling brings up mountains of information on the subject, seeing as its a common football injury, and sports injury. A lot of it goes way over my head and there's several questions I have that are going round my head, that I can't ask my consultant until I see him again in 2 weeks! Part of my problem is that I do a very physical job, I am a mechanical craftsman (aka fitter) at a power station. This involves awkward spaces, and kneeling in bad positions and on poor surfaces.
So the two common options for ligament reconstruction are to take from either the patella ligament, or the hamstring. From what I've read, the patella ligament is stronger, and can give better results, but could lead to particular tenderness when kneeling/squatting.
Is this true from people's experiences or knowledge? I'm worried about losing the ability to play sports, as well as my ability to complete my job role, in the future, as I'm only 25 now.
How long a recovery time am I looking at if I undergo the reconstruction? I will be willing to work hard to regain the ability to play sports.
Another obstacle is the fact my busy period is the summertime, from the end of April till October this year due to a large amount of work on the outage. My finances need this boost to keep us on an even keel, otherwise we wind up spiralling into the overdraft and credit card because we've gotten used to the money .
Am I likely to cause more severe damage to the ACL if I delay the Surgery till October? Bear in mind that I did this injury in September, and only got properly diagnosed in the begginging of December, as the GP I saw first said that because there was very little swelling there was no way I had damaged my ligaments beyond straining
I also saw a physio through occupational health at work whom said that rather than ligament damage, he believed it to be more soft tissue based damage and maybe nerve issues because of the pain.
Is there anything I can do in the meantime to aid my recovery besides trying to lose weight, and building leg muscles up?
Thanks for your time, Graham
I had an arthroscopy yesterday after discussions with my consultant (luckily on medical insurance, otherwise I would have been waiting till April apparently) that he believed I'd damaged my cartilage due to the impact from a bad landing in football. Turns out that not only had I damaged my cartilage, but that my ACL is also in two pieces. Fun!
So, googling brings up mountains of information on the subject, seeing as its a common football injury, and sports injury. A lot of it goes way over my head and there's several questions I have that are going round my head, that I can't ask my consultant until I see him again in 2 weeks! Part of my problem is that I do a very physical job, I am a mechanical craftsman (aka fitter) at a power station. This involves awkward spaces, and kneeling in bad positions and on poor surfaces.
So the two common options for ligament reconstruction are to take from either the patella ligament, or the hamstring. From what I've read, the patella ligament is stronger, and can give better results, but could lead to particular tenderness when kneeling/squatting.
Is this true from people's experiences or knowledge? I'm worried about losing the ability to play sports, as well as my ability to complete my job role, in the future, as I'm only 25 now.
How long a recovery time am I looking at if I undergo the reconstruction? I will be willing to work hard to regain the ability to play sports.
Another obstacle is the fact my busy period is the summertime, from the end of April till October this year due to a large amount of work on the outage. My finances need this boost to keep us on an even keel, otherwise we wind up spiralling into the overdraft and credit card because we've gotten used to the money .
Am I likely to cause more severe damage to the ACL if I delay the Surgery till October? Bear in mind that I did this injury in September, and only got properly diagnosed in the begginging of December, as the GP I saw first said that because there was very little swelling there was no way I had damaged my ligaments beyond straining
I also saw a physio through occupational health at work whom said that rather than ligament damage, he believed it to be more soft tissue based damage and maybe nerve issues because of the pain. Is there anything I can do in the meantime to aid my recovery besides trying to lose weight, and building leg muscles up?
Thanks for your time, Graham
I'll give you a good and bad story. Unfortunately the bad story comes from my own experience !
I snapped by ACL when I was 28 (playing football of course)
Had the MRI which confirmed the injury and got booked into surgery a couple of months afterwards (I went private, but just wanted to do at a time that suited me). I was only offered one method of repair - the hamstring option.
Surgery went well, they had me up and about a few hours after the procedure (on crutches)and was discharged the same day.
I had a 3-4 inch scar complete with metal staples just below the troublesome knee.
I started on a course of physio and religiously did all the exercises I was given.
The timeline I was given was 3 months for normal walking, 6 months for solid exercise and then 9 months to be back playing footy.
Things didn't go this way though, I had real problems with swelling around the knee which really restricted my movement.
Physio eventually sent me back to the surgeon (after about 5 months) and i was given the excruciatingly painful injection (cortisone I think) straight into the kneecap with about a 5 inch needle that had to be stabbed in
This did actually help with the swelling for some time but as i continued to do the exercises it kept coming back.
I would say it was 9 months before I was walking normally (and had full range of movement in my knee) and another 3 months before I was in the gym. This experience put me off going back to play footy and I sat out another whole season.
When i was 30 I moved to California and in the end (due to me not knowing anyone there) I joined an Irish football team. I had a lot of confidence issues with the knee, but in the end I just said sod it and went for it. Haven't looked back since and my knee is now stronger than its ever been (i won't go into the broken ankle (footy injury), secondary ankle operation,a slipped disk in my back (footy injury) or 3 x cartilage (other) knee surgery (footy injuries)
I would say this is probably worse case scenario - and my operation was 10 years ago, so the procedures may have improved by now.
I'll leave you with the positive story though! One of my Californian footy team mates, a Danish guy called Christian tore his ACL (whilst playing footy). He booked into surgery a couple of months after this. He was offered several options, the patella, the hamstring and somewhat morbidly a doner ligament. Christina took the option of a doner ligament - basically some dead persons Achilles tendon if I remember rightly).
Christian was given a mechanical device which exercised/moved his knee around for him. he was told to use it (lying down) for an hour a day and do other exercises. He was a very chilled guy though and stupidly, the day after the surgery he took a load of painkillers, got himself setup in this machine and fell asleep. He woke up 16 hours later with the knee still going around on this contraption
Long and short of it though, he was back running in 3 months and back with the team playing footy in 5.
I would say that this is the very best scenario.
Only other feedback i can give you is that the hamstring option, although a little painful for a week on the leg they took it from gave me no ill effects.
Good luck with the operation - you will mend!
I snapped by ACL when I was 28 (playing football of course)
Had the MRI which confirmed the injury and got booked into surgery a couple of months afterwards (I went private, but just wanted to do at a time that suited me). I was only offered one method of repair - the hamstring option.
Surgery went well, they had me up and about a few hours after the procedure (on crutches)and was discharged the same day.
I had a 3-4 inch scar complete with metal staples just below the troublesome knee.
I started on a course of physio and religiously did all the exercises I was given.
The timeline I was given was 3 months for normal walking, 6 months for solid exercise and then 9 months to be back playing footy.
Things didn't go this way though, I had real problems with swelling around the knee which really restricted my movement.
Physio eventually sent me back to the surgeon (after about 5 months) and i was given the excruciatingly painful injection (cortisone I think) straight into the kneecap with about a 5 inch needle that had to be stabbed in
This did actually help with the swelling for some time but as i continued to do the exercises it kept coming back.
I would say it was 9 months before I was walking normally (and had full range of movement in my knee) and another 3 months before I was in the gym. This experience put me off going back to play footy and I sat out another whole season.
When i was 30 I moved to California and in the end (due to me not knowing anyone there) I joined an Irish football team. I had a lot of confidence issues with the knee, but in the end I just said sod it and went for it. Haven't looked back since and my knee is now stronger than its ever been (i won't go into the broken ankle (footy injury), secondary ankle operation,a slipped disk in my back (footy injury) or 3 x cartilage (other) knee surgery (footy injuries)
I would say this is probably worse case scenario - and my operation was 10 years ago, so the procedures may have improved by now.
I'll leave you with the positive story though! One of my Californian footy team mates, a Danish guy called Christian tore his ACL (whilst playing footy). He booked into surgery a couple of months after this. He was offered several options, the patella, the hamstring and somewhat morbidly a doner ligament. Christina took the option of a doner ligament - basically some dead persons Achilles tendon if I remember rightly).
Christian was given a mechanical device which exercised/moved his knee around for him. he was told to use it (lying down) for an hour a day and do other exercises. He was a very chilled guy though and stupidly, the day after the surgery he took a load of painkillers, got himself setup in this machine and fell asleep. He woke up 16 hours later with the knee still going around on this contraption
Long and short of it though, he was back running in 3 months and back with the team playing footy in 5.
I would say that this is the very best scenario.
Only other feedback i can give you is that the hamstring option, although a little painful for a week on the leg they took it from gave me no ill effects.
Good luck with the operation - you will mend!
Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 13th January 08:41
Tzymo said:
So the two common options for ligament reconstruction are to take from either the patella ligament, or the hamstring. From what I've read, the patella ligament is stronger, and can give better results, but could lead to particular tenderness when kneeling/squatting.
No real difference in graft strengths, Patella tendon can give knealing pain permanentlyTzymo said:
How long a recovery time am I looking at if I undergo the reconstruction? I will be willing to work hard to regain the ability to play sports.
7-9 months for full activity including pitch/court sports.Tzymo said:
Am I likely to cause more severe damage to the ACL if I delay the Surgery till October?
No, once it's torn, it's torn. Further episodes of giving-way will however eventually lead to another injury inside the knee like meniscus or articular cartilage. Keeping stable will not.Tzymo said:
Is there anything I can do in the meantime to aid my recovery besides trying to lose weight, and building leg muscles up?
yes x1million for theseWhat the Doc says...
One other bit of advise... Choose your surgeon well!
My knee is perfect, full range of movement, no pain (except on cold mornings... Oh the pain).
Till your op, keep using it (sensibly). ... You want your knee to be as strong as it can be.
I traveled out to Essex to have my operation with my chosen surgeon. I cant fault the operation at all.
One other bit of advise... Choose your surgeon well!
My knee is perfect, full range of movement, no pain (except on cold mornings... Oh the pain).
Till your op, keep using it (sensibly). ... You want your knee to be as strong as it can be.
I traveled out to Essex to have my operation with my chosen surgeon. I cant fault the operation at all.
Thanks for the replies, has eased my mind a little bit and will give me chance to make a more informed choice.
I'm not sure on the whole surgeon front whether I have a massive amount of choice due to the fact my medical insurance is through work, the company being Cigna. I have a guy called prof. Maqsood and considering the fact I had an operation Wednesday my knee is feeling pretty good. He seems to know what he's doing, but the I probably wouldn't know if it was the opposite
In terms of exercises is my best bet to talk to a physio when I'm at my appointment next?
I'm not sure on the whole surgeon front whether I have a massive amount of choice due to the fact my medical insurance is through work, the company being Cigna. I have a guy called prof. Maqsood and considering the fact I had an operation Wednesday my knee is feeling pretty good. He seems to know what he's doing, but the I probably wouldn't know if it was the opposite
In terms of exercises is my best bet to talk to a physio when I'm at my appointment next?
My exercise was essentially just normal day to day things. I carried on my job and life as usual. As I'm sure your aware, once it's snapped, you have little or no pain... Just instability.
Sounds like you have the right attitude anyway
After my operation, I was up and walking the same day (with crutches), and then up and using it as much as I could.
Due to work, I didn't really do any physio, however my recovery was pretty unremarkable. I was back playing footy again after 9 months ish.
Sounds like you have the right attitude anyway
After my operation, I was up and walking the same day (with crutches), and then up and using it as much as I could.
Due to work, I didn't really do any physio, however my recovery was pretty unremarkable. I was back playing footy again after 9 months ish.
[quote=Tzymo
In terms of exercises is my best bet to talk to a physio when I'm at my appointment next?
[/quote]
Yes, see if the physio can give you any advice about exercises.
From memory, (post operation) it was all about building up the muscles just above the knee (quads).
So lunges, simply standing on your bad leg and moving up and down, later cycling and seated push weights.
Any muscle you can build up before the Op would be time well spent - the muscle really does waste away quickly after the Op so the more you have to start with the better.
In terms of exercises is my best bet to talk to a physio when I'm at my appointment next?
[/quote]
Yes, see if the physio can give you any advice about exercises.
From memory, (post operation) it was all about building up the muscles just above the knee (quads).
So lunges, simply standing on your bad leg and moving up and down, later cycling and seated push weights.
Any muscle you can build up before the Op would be time well spent - the muscle really does waste away quickly after the Op so the more you have to start with the better.
Tzymo said:
Good, do I'll get some excercises sorted out and get doing them then.
Would it be worth buying a knee support to try and keep my knee more stable at work. And when doing excersise, or would it restrict movement too much for the excersises?
As you'll just be doing exercises to build up muscle around and above the knee joint then as long as the knee support allows you to flex and extend the knee you'll be Would it be worth buying a knee support to try and keep my knee more stable at work. And when doing excersise, or would it restrict movement too much for the excersises?
fine.
Massive bump. I finally had the operation last week, currently full weight bearing with crutches. Ice 3 times a day, and physio 3 times a day.
Pain has just about gone but struggling to bend my knee with the bandage I have, and it feels like I'm going to split the wound open. No idea exactly what's going off but doing my exercises as best as I can
The bandage is unravelling at a rate of knots, and I'm not seeing the doc till 2nd Jan for post op. my knee still feels unstable but realise that may well be down to my muscles. I'm just not feeling very positive right now.
Have my next physio appointment on the 28th along with a wound check and suture removal.
Ay one got any tips?
Graham
Pain has just about gone but struggling to bend my knee with the bandage I have, and it feels like I'm going to split the wound open. No idea exactly what's going off but doing my exercises as best as I can
The bandage is unravelling at a rate of knots, and I'm not seeing the doc till 2nd Jan for post op. my knee still feels unstable but realise that may well be down to my muscles. I'm just not feeling very positive right now.
Have my next physio appointment on the 28th along with a wound check and suture removal.
Ay one got any tips?
Graham
It is pretty much a year to the day that I had my ACL and meniscus op and I can honestly say that (other than a couple of small scars) I can't tell the difference between my operated and non-operated knee. I also did it playing footy and I can remember the recovery period well.
The best thing you can do is just exactly what the physio recommends. I heard a few stories of people trying to do too much and it just set them back - so just follow the exercises that you have been given religiously.
I followed all mine to the letter and although it felt like slow progress to begin with, if you think of how you were the week before you will realise how much it has improved.
My bandages were taken off the same day and I just had a compression bandage tube thingy on for a few weeks with this full metal leg brace (not in bed) for about 10 weeks. No driving for that period as well which was a nightmare. I was playing golf within 3 mths and played footy again by 6mths although I only played once to prove I could do it - mentally I didn't enjoy it much and decided I was happy doing other sports. I am 37 so you might decided its a bit early to retire!
For the past 6mths it has been great - no problems whatsoever. Treatments for this injury have moved on greatly in the past few years and recovery periods reduce dramatically.
Snowboarding holiday booked and going in Jan - can't wait!
Sorry for the ramble - but if you pick up one thing from my post is that you should follow the physio exercises completely - they know your injury and how best to get it sorted quickly - don't over do it!
The best thing you can do is just exactly what the physio recommends. I heard a few stories of people trying to do too much and it just set them back - so just follow the exercises that you have been given religiously.
I followed all mine to the letter and although it felt like slow progress to begin with, if you think of how you were the week before you will realise how much it has improved.
My bandages were taken off the same day and I just had a compression bandage tube thingy on for a few weeks with this full metal leg brace (not in bed) for about 10 weeks. No driving for that period as well which was a nightmare. I was playing golf within 3 mths and played footy again by 6mths although I only played once to prove I could do it - mentally I didn't enjoy it much and decided I was happy doing other sports. I am 37 so you might decided its a bit early to retire!
For the past 6mths it has been great - no problems whatsoever. Treatments for this injury have moved on greatly in the past few years and recovery periods reduce dramatically.
Snowboarding holiday booked and going in Jan - can't wait!
Sorry for the ramble - but if you pick up one thing from my post is that you should follow the physio exercises completely - they know your injury and how best to get it sorted quickly - don't over do it!
In '96 I tore my ACL playing football and didn't really do anything about it and movement was good although I knew I couldn't play football. In February '97 I went snowboarding, wearing a strong knee brace (metal hinged) and had no problems.
A week or so after I came back I had surgery - patella tendon. I was lucky enough to go private, and had a brilliant surgeon. Anyway, the knee recovered and I got back to football and snowboarding.
Based only on my experience, have the surgery at a time that suits you.
Make sure you exercise regularly - maybe see a physio and exercise correctly. I lost about 1.5inches circumference in my thigh muscle above the knee, so it will all help.
A week or so after I came back I had surgery - patella tendon. I was lucky enough to go private, and had a brilliant surgeon. Anyway, the knee recovered and I got back to football and snowboarding.
Based only on my experience, have the surgery at a time that suits you.
Make sure you exercise regularly - maybe see a physio and exercise correctly. I lost about 1.5inches circumference in my thigh muscle above the knee, so it will all help.
Ancient thread revival, but thought it would be of use for information for some people.
Been over a year now, and I'm nowhere near back to where I was before I started. I have pain and swelling problems in my knee, awful after being sat down, and I recently started to notice I had occasional clicking in my knee.
Back to the docs, one MRI later and I've been informed I have another tear in my meniscus. FML
Booked in Wednesday for an Arthroscopy to sort it out. Talking to the doc, I had a couple of missteps in the snow early on after the operation. Not enough to damage the graft, but it could be the cause of the new tear.
So, hopefully after this is sorted and a bit more physio, I'll be able to improve more. I will have lost some ROM, but I'd be happy with no pain!
Been over a year now, and I'm nowhere near back to where I was before I started. I have pain and swelling problems in my knee, awful after being sat down, and I recently started to notice I had occasional clicking in my knee.
Back to the docs, one MRI later and I've been informed I have another tear in my meniscus. FML
Booked in Wednesday for an Arthroscopy to sort it out. Talking to the doc, I had a couple of missteps in the snow early on after the operation. Not enough to damage the graft, but it could be the cause of the new tear.
So, hopefully after this is sorted and a bit more physio, I'll be able to improve more. I will have lost some ROM, but I'd be happy with no pain!
So arthroscopy done. The cartilage damage was determined to be very minor, but it turned out I had suffered minor damage to my graft at some point, and so had developed arthrofibrosis which apparently could be a cause of the loss of some of my ROM.
He trimmed the cartilage (a tiny sliver apparently) and shaved the lump off the ligament. Physio next week to see how I'm doing. I'm just happy there was a reason I was struggling, this lump would have been the cause of several of my issues.
So 2 weeks off work+, and then get it under some load.
He trimmed the cartilage (a tiny sliver apparently) and shaved the lump off the ligament. Physio next week to see how I'm doing. I'm just happy there was a reason I was struggling, this lump would have been the cause of several of my issues.
So 2 weeks off work+, and then get it under some load.
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