F40: decision time - advice from owners

[Schnellmann]

So, went to see F40 for sale this morning. No point stating the obvious that the car was lovely and I could see the (visible) work that had been invested in the past couple of years to refurbish the car. However, I don't have any experience of F40s so could have missed stuff quite easily.

Car is viewable under following link : www.autoforce.ch

(clink on "Angebot" and you will see it listed)

Car has had two owners, last for 10 years (it is the dealer's own car).

Some issues: mileage high at 38'000 km, motor was replaced after 1 year at 20'000 km, although mechanically refurbished still original paintwork, which is not perfect, limited documentation with the car (seems to be standard for Switzerland), except original invoice on delivery and service book.

This is the specialist that did the renovation:

http://www.renn-sportcars.ch/index.php

Would be pretty easy to acquire as dealer happy to take both my 911s in part exchange but would buying the first car I see be a bit rash?

Also not sure I have fully convinced myself yet that it is a good idea (and haven't even mentioned it to the OH yet). I fear that if I bought it I'd be too precious with it and would worry about every extra km on the clock (as I could only justify such a purchase to myself and wife if I treat it as an investment i.e. I'm not in the enviable position of being able to say I'd never sell it).

Any thoughts/advice from current/past owners of F40s would be appreciated.

[UH-Matt]

Personally for me miles count, and if you think adding miles to the car will spoil your enjoyment, or will stop you driving it, then you shouldn't buy one that already has a lot of miles on it... Just my 10 cents.

[ZOLLAR]

Did you test drive it or did the dealer take you out in it?.

[Schnellmann]

No. Didn't ask as roads wet and given the effort/money to refurbish car I wouldn't want to have it driven in the wet (especially as there could be salt on the roads too). Will be strictly summer/dry use.

[ZOLLAR]

Schnellmann said:

No. Didn't ask as roads wet and given the effort/money to refurbish car I wouldn't want to have it driven in the wet (especially as there could be salt on the roads too). Will be strictly summer/dry use.

Ah I was thinking the least you could have gotten out of the visit would have been a guaranteed meal

[LongLiveTazio]

It's at the cheaper end of the market for an early car with sliding windows. I guess this is reflected by the mileage but?..

IMO it looks a *little* bit rough round the edges. Little things like there not being a badge on the steering wheel, the carbon fibre either side of the exhaust looking a bit rough, etc. They are handmade cars so are all different, the photos are small so it's quite hard to see. When I had a poke around the 40 or so assembled at Silverstone a few years ago you could quite visibly tell which ones were the 'better' ones; little things like the rubber seals around the windows being more perfect, consistent visible weave, etc. (and I don't just mean which are driven and which aren't).

I wouldn't buy the first one I'd seen without seeing a few others first.

Is there a Swiss division of the Ferrari Owners' Club you could contact to let you see a few members' examples as a reference point and/or take someone knowledgeable with you?

[CraigVmax]

maybe club scud would have some owners also. I know someone who is very knowledgable about these and has one, i'll see if he is around to offer advice

[AndrewW-G]

The quality of finish is very variable, however it's worth noting that the people who specialise in repairing and looking after these cars, tend to work to a higher standard than the factory turned out

So sometimes perfect paint and composites may be the benefit of a car being repaired or refurbished with more care and attention.

[johnnyreggae]

Whilst there are maybe half a dozen owners here if you feel you need a broader knowledge-base then this US site should be on your list - there's many many owners and even another Swiss based chap there http://ferrarichat.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=59

[Schnellmann]

Thanks for comments. I'm planning a visit to a Ferrari specialist I know tomorrow morning to get their view. Also planning to contact the Ferrari owner's club of Switzerland.

[rpk]

hi. i bought one with what i thought was higher mileage at 18k km at quite a bit lower than this price earlier this year. so from a price quality perspective, i think this one is a bit high.
i live in switzerland, but have an address in the uk, and so registered it there.
buying one registered in switzerland carries a big premium at the start, and then for insurance. if its at all possible for you to buy in the eu, and register in the uk, i would suggest you do so - you will save a bundle.

i would also suggest that you take a stroll on the ferrarichat website since there are a great number of owners there that can give you more advice. see you there....

[birdcage]

It I was buying one I would use a specialist to find me a good one, Elms have a good reputation although I have never used them.

Or Talacrest, DK Engineering. Then you KNOW its kosher and the advice will be spot on.

[Scrimper]

I understand that Swiss cars are more expensive due to import costs and certain regulations (with emissions?) that have to be met. A mate of mine was looking at the swiss market last year and better value cars were certainly to be found abroad. The standard build quality is not great, but why did this car need a mechanical restoration. With only two owners it should have been well kept and fully documented. How much history is there with the car? I bought mine privately but knew what to look out for and made sure anything that needed doing was priced in. Regarding mileage, it depends on the purpose of you purchase. Buying a higher mileage car will be cheaper but it will be harder to sell on. Mine has 11k miles and despite being worried about mileage at first, i never even think about it now - but most of my journeys are not too long so the mileage i put on is only reasonable in order to keep the car in good working order (they can get expensive if unused for long periods of tim). If it is your dream to get one and you can, then do it, you will not be disappointed. If in doubt pay for an independent specialist to check out the car, the couple of specialists in Switzerland should already know the car as the circle is quite small.

[andy74b]

You in Zurich then??

Ferrari dealer in Sion always has f40 or similar in stock.

Think the one you looking at is fantastic condition now but will always be seen as a driver rather than a collector. Maybe best to buy I uk and take out to Swiss for 6mths a year.

[Schnellmann]

Based close to Zurich.

Following on from yesterday's visit and advice from a specialist I am going to walk away from this one. I think that the replacement engine and the relatively high mileage are always going to be black marks. If the car were much cheaper then it would be a possibility as the refurb work looks good and if it already has high mileage then I could worry less about driving it (which is why I want to buy it!) I love looking at cars and owning nice ones but ultimately it I the driving buzz I crave most. However, doesn't make sense to pay top dollar for car with such a history.

Thanks for all comments.

[AndrewD]

Ferro Rosso have a car on their website

[APOLO1]

Purchase the best you can afford, I have had mine for over 7 years now, great fun when the weather allows.

I know of a couple of low millage well sorted cars, in Europe. That are priced reasonably, I will enquire.

[johnnyreggae]

Nigel Mansell was here http://www.artcurial.com/en/asp/fullCatalogue.asp?...

[Tyrion]

Schnellmann said:

Also not sure I have fully convinced myself yet that it is a good idea (and haven't even mentioned it to the OH yet). I fear that if I bought it I'd be too precious with it and would worry about every extra km on the clock (as I could only justify such a purchase to myself and wife if I treat it as an investment i.e. I'm not in the enviable position of being able to say I'd never sell it).

Sounds like it would be a bad Idea to buy to me... It sounds like you can't really afford to buy it as a car you will actually use, and I dont think the numbers stack up if you try and justify buying it as an investment do they?

[Camlet]

birdcage said:

It I was buying one I would use a specialist to find me a good one, Elms have a good reputation although I have never used them.

Or Talacrest, DK Engineering. Then you KNOW its kosher and the advice will be spot on.

Perhaps but DK tried to flog me Chris Evans car as a very special car. I knew its history and thought otherwise. Another dealer who I trust and who wasn't selling anything told me Evans' car was a dog (hard use, high mileage, repaint and retrim). Same for a RH F40. DK said it was hugely rare and special thus commanded a premuim. A. Service manager I know very well asked why on earth would pay a premium for a car that was in reality an oddball conversion. Nothing is ever completely kosher with these dealers unless you've considerable leverage. The buyer needs to do lots of research and use a ton of common sense. Basic entry is for a Classiche certificate. And then record everything via email for possible later use.