06 Astra H 1.9 CDTI 150 technical assistance please...
Discussion
Hi,
I have an Astra H 1.9 CDTI 150 and recently it is losing serious power under 2000rpm. I have taken it the garage but as there is no fault code or physically broken part they struggle to see what i mean. (Test drive with the garage was useless as the car decided to work on that journy so he couldnt see what I was worried about)
Symptons are: in gear, under 2000rpm no power what so ever, slowly though it creaps up the revs, just after 2000rpm with foot still firmly planted it will take off suddently and loads of smoke out the back.
From initial research fingers are pointing at the EGR valve which recirculates the gases back into the system. (so i've read)
I am getting worried as the more I read into this it could be more then just the EGR valve at fault here, anyone had any experience with faulty EGR Valves or experience eith similar problems and was something else at fault in the end?
If this helps, 6 months ago it was suggested I get the EGR valve checked and cleaned so I had the EGR valve cleaned, to be honest back then with well over 100,000 miles on the clock it wasnt too clogged up at all.
cheers
I have an Astra H 1.9 CDTI 150 and recently it is losing serious power under 2000rpm. I have taken it the garage but as there is no fault code or physically broken part they struggle to see what i mean. (Test drive with the garage was useless as the car decided to work on that journy so he couldnt see what I was worried about)
Symptons are: in gear, under 2000rpm no power what so ever, slowly though it creaps up the revs, just after 2000rpm with foot still firmly planted it will take off suddently and loads of smoke out the back.
From initial research fingers are pointing at the EGR valve which recirculates the gases back into the system. (so i've read)
I am getting worried as the more I read into this it could be more then just the EGR valve at fault here, anyone had any experience with faulty EGR Valves or experience eith similar problems and was something else at fault in the end?
If this helps, 6 months ago it was suggested I get the EGR valve checked and cleaned so I had the EGR valve cleaned, to be honest back then with well over 100,000 miles on the clock it wasnt too clogged up at all.
cheers
i was also thinking MAF sensor.
Just unplug the lead to it, and if there is no difference then the MAF sensor is broken, as if it is working properly unplugging it would have a noticable effect.
The maf sensor is part of the air pipe. It will be on the pipe coming out the air filter box, and look for a largish connector (unplug to test as above).
also has an engine light come on the dashboard before? in a vauxhall this would indicate some sort of emissions fault.
Just unplug the lead to it, and if there is no difference then the MAF sensor is broken, as if it is working properly unplugging it would have a noticable effect.
The maf sensor is part of the air pipe. It will be on the pipe coming out the air filter box, and look for a largish connector (unplug to test as above).
also has an engine light come on the dashboard before? in a vauxhall this would indicate some sort of emissions fault.
The EGR can become blocked and reduce power below certain revs. It's only a few bolts to remove and clean with some carb cleaner. There will be guides on the internet to do this. The CDTi 150 engine suffers from a problem with the inlet manifold though. Pull off the engine vanity cover and look at the back of the engine where the inlet manifold is. You should see a metal bar there. Make sure it hasn't fallen off. This operates flaps inside the manifold and if its all gunked up inside it can break off. Look for any oil buildup around the flaps too.
I had exactly the same symptoms on my wife's Alfa GT with the same engine. I cleaned the EGR valve and it resolved the issue for about 10k miles, but then the problem came back. I think sometimes cleaning them is just putting off the inevitable.
You should be able to get a new one for about £100 and fit yourself. I'm pretty useless when it comes to spannering but I replaced ours eventually in about 2 hours.
You should be able to get a new one for about £100 and fit yourself. I'm pretty useless when it comes to spannering but I replaced ours eventually in about 2 hours.
neiljohnson said:
I would expect it to be the egr normally if it's the maf the car won't get going at all
To test you need to blank it off by putting a plate over the hole (egr has to be removed) then take it for a run if the problem is cured then it's the egr.
Are there special plates to block it off, also there are two holes, should I block both off or just the one on the back of the engine? To test you need to blank it off by putting a plate over the hole (egr has to be removed) then take it for a run if the problem is cured then it's the egr.
Cheers
[quote=Eth2312]
Are there special plates to block it off, also there are two holes, should I block both off or just the one on the back of the engine?
Block both holes off you will need to make your own plate up doesn't have to be anything special ad long as it can do the job temporarily as a quick run up the rd will confirm if the egr is the fault or not
Are there special plates to block it off, also there are two holes, should I block both off or just the one on the back of the engine?
Block both holes off you will need to make your own plate up doesn't have to be anything special ad long as it can do the job temporarily as a quick run up the rd will confirm if the egr is the fault or not
Eth2312 said:
Are there special plates to block it off, also there are two holes, should I block both off or just the one on the back of the engine?
Cheers
Block off the EGR and the EML will come on for sureCheers
Check the swirl flaps as has been previously suggested
Also, one small point. There's a plunger on the older EGR valves which seizes up and can cause these sort of issues. Whip it off and see if it moves freely
esvcg said:
i was also thinking MAF sensor.
Just unplug the lead to it, and if there is no difference then the MAF sensor is broken, as if it is working properly unplugging it would have a noticable effect.
The maf sensor is part of the air pipe. It will be on the pipe coming out the air filter box, and look for a largish connector (unplug to test as above).
also has an engine light come on the dashboard before? in a vauxhall this would indicate some sort of emissions fault.
No dashboard light has come on, someone told me this could be why its the EGR as its not actually broken, just sticking it wouldn't turn a light on. Just unplug the lead to it, and if there is no difference then the MAF sensor is broken, as if it is working properly unplugging it would have a noticable effect.
The maf sensor is part of the air pipe. It will be on the pipe coming out the air filter box, and look for a largish connector (unplug to test as above).
also has an engine light come on the dashboard before? in a vauxhall this would indicate some sort of emissions fault.
If any of the other possible suggestions on here were at fault would they put a light on the dash?
Thanks
twink said:
The EGR can become blocked and reduce power below certain revs. It's only a few bolts to remove and clean with some carb cleaner. There will be guides on the internet to do this. The CDTi 150 engine suffers from a problem with the inlet manifold though. Pull off the engine vanity cover and look at the back of the engine where the inlet manifold is. You should see a metal bar there. Make sure it hasn't fallen off. This operates flaps inside the manifold and if its all gunked up inside it can break off. Look for any oil buildup around the flaps too.
When you say metal bar, do you refer to the swirl flaps, if so they are intact and appear to operate as normal, just googled a video on how they should work and mine are the same. If they are working as per normal does that rule out an inlet manifold problem??
Also, given the car a good blast on the motorway and did improve but as I got off it went back to no power
Our fiat JTD had similar problems (same engine if i remember rightly), was the EGR valve - crack it off, clean it with carb cleaner and reattach - you can block it off if you want.
Try flooring it in 2nd gear and see if you get a temporary improvement.
If not, odds on the MAF - as said above.
Good luck
Try flooring it in 2nd gear and see if you get a temporary improvement.
If not, odds on the MAF - as said above.
Good luck
It’s the EGR valve for sure.... you can take it off the front of the engine very easily and clean it and replace it. Bingo, fully healthy engine again. If not, get a garage to do it, it is rather a messy job, lots of carbon deposits will come out.
Don't let the garage tell you that you need a complete replacement, that's just pure rubbish.
It also could be the operation of your swirl valves, but this is easily investigated by the garage by hooking up testing equipment to the cars ECU and moving the swirl valve while taking reads from the Mass Air Flow meter. Again, be present while doing this test and don't let the garage tell you it is needing replacement unless you have seen the results on the screen of the Tech II device, measuring the air flow readings.
I have a Saab 1.9 TID 150bhp, the same Fiat engine as yourself (Yes your engine in a Fiat engine, designed and built by Fiat while GM had a share in Fiat) and I experienced you exact problem and in my naivety changed both parts from the garages advice, but I needn’t when I then decided to educate myself on Common rail diesel engines and their workings. Luckily for me I avoided both bills for Swirls Valve replacement, then the EGR replacement by using my Warranty.
If you don't drive regularly at high constant revs, i.e. 2,700 rpm on long distances on motorways, then you are going have a repeat of your problem due to build up of carbon deposits within the valves. Basically, you can't just potter around in a diesel car these days, as it will get "coked" up quickly. If urban town driving is your general mode of driving, then I would run a calculation on the number of miles you drive and the hassle of servicing your car more regularly when driving a diesel. Basically it is only worth owning a diesel car if you drive 18,000 miles or more, with a high proportion of the driving done on motorways.
My car is a 55 plate Saab 1.9TID which I have owned since 2009 and have owned in from 58,000 miles to its current mileage of 117,000 miles and after the initial problems with the EGR and Swirl valves (ok and the fly wheel issue), all common faults, the car has performed perfectly, not missing a beat. I have just had an ECU upgrade via Hirsch (“Chipped” as some folk like to call it) to raise it to 175bhp, the Saab now is a real torque monster, feels brand new! Now pulling 45-50 MPG regularly at speeds on the motorway needed to progress efficiently up and down the length of the UK and Europe within a working day.
Your problem is a simple one, the engine you have is far better than any of the VAG rubbish, I assure you. That compliment has also come from many of my friends who run diesel VAG cars – EGR Valves, Swirl Vales, loads of blown Turbo’s all at approx 100k, are all problems they have also experienced as well... But their cars are particularly noisy and rough running, unlike this Fiat engine (Surprising I know!)
Good luck!
Don't let the garage tell you that you need a complete replacement, that's just pure rubbish.
It also could be the operation of your swirl valves, but this is easily investigated by the garage by hooking up testing equipment to the cars ECU and moving the swirl valve while taking reads from the Mass Air Flow meter. Again, be present while doing this test and don't let the garage tell you it is needing replacement unless you have seen the results on the screen of the Tech II device, measuring the air flow readings.
I have a Saab 1.9 TID 150bhp, the same Fiat engine as yourself (Yes your engine in a Fiat engine, designed and built by Fiat while GM had a share in Fiat) and I experienced you exact problem and in my naivety changed both parts from the garages advice, but I needn’t when I then decided to educate myself on Common rail diesel engines and their workings. Luckily for me I avoided both bills for Swirls Valve replacement, then the EGR replacement by using my Warranty.
If you don't drive regularly at high constant revs, i.e. 2,700 rpm on long distances on motorways, then you are going have a repeat of your problem due to build up of carbon deposits within the valves. Basically, you can't just potter around in a diesel car these days, as it will get "coked" up quickly. If urban town driving is your general mode of driving, then I would run a calculation on the number of miles you drive and the hassle of servicing your car more regularly when driving a diesel. Basically it is only worth owning a diesel car if you drive 18,000 miles or more, with a high proportion of the driving done on motorways.
My car is a 55 plate Saab 1.9TID which I have owned since 2009 and have owned in from 58,000 miles to its current mileage of 117,000 miles and after the initial problems with the EGR and Swirl valves (ok and the fly wheel issue), all common faults, the car has performed perfectly, not missing a beat. I have just had an ECU upgrade via Hirsch (“Chipped” as some folk like to call it) to raise it to 175bhp, the Saab now is a real torque monster, feels brand new! Now pulling 45-50 MPG regularly at speeds on the motorway needed to progress efficiently up and down the length of the UK and Europe within a working day.
Your problem is a simple one, the engine you have is far better than any of the VAG rubbish, I assure you. That compliment has also come from many of my friends who run diesel VAG cars – EGR Valves, Swirl Vales, loads of blown Turbo’s all at approx 100k, are all problems they have also experienced as well... But their cars are particularly noisy and rough running, unlike this Fiat engine (Surprising I know!)
Good luck!
What ^ this chap said
However I reckong on a rough 50% fix rate if just cleaning the valve, sometimes it needs to be replaced as the carbon build up has fooked it completely where it can't go in and out.
All I will add is to make sure that they clean the pipe from the exhaust to the valve.
However I reckong on a rough 50% fix rate if just cleaning the valve, sometimes it needs to be replaced as the carbon build up has fooked it completely where it can't go in and out.
All I will add is to make sure that they clean the pipe from the exhaust to the valve.
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