Length - Is longer better?

[Storer]

At the Autosport show yesterday I was struck by the length of the wheelbase of the F1 and Lola LeMans cars. They look to be nearly 1.5x the wheelbase of the Ultima. I know these cars are built to the Regs of their formula but I can see the advantage of the extra space for packaging all those bits into.

If Ultima ever do build a new model I hope they pick the look of the current crop of LeMans cars as it would make fitting everything in soooooooo much easier!


Paul

[356Speedster]

A longer wheelbase could help in numerous areas...... greater stability (I know the Ultima isn't exactly "nervous" on the road, but it all helps), more room between rear wheel centreline & bulkhead for alternative drivetrains (enough to allow V10/V12 fitment), more room for engine ancillaries, more interior room for humans, the list goes on.

An extra 12-18inches in the wheelbase, with another couple of inches on the track width would be nice, if I was looking at doing a re-design. That said I wouldn't want it to get too big as the compact dimesions are one of the car's strong points, so it'd all have to be done in proportion without adding too much to the body length..... Mmmm, fantasy Ultima time!

[Paul.B]

I doubt the Ultima needs any more added to the track. If you have ever tried getting one on a trailer you will know they are not a narrow car. As for 12 - 18 inches extra in the wheel base? Yes, that would help the torsional stiffness!!! The only area lacking size wise I would say is cabin width. It is very cosy that is for sure.

[TangoGTR]

If I was rich enough not to have to worry about resale I would love to have a GTR as a single seater with seat in the centre. Would be fun to get in and out of

[738 driver]

Getting the serious lumps of mass closer to CG and having tyres and aeros direct the object at its lighter extremes.... avoid dumbell effect.

[ROWDYRENAULT]

18 inchs is more weight. The engine that we need to develop up to any fiqure you could possibly use already fits. I have had the car at 180 in a 30 knot cross wind I could not be happier with the stability. This was at a closed air base. The longer the wheel base the bigger the turning circle at the same steering input. A longer frame would not be torsionaly stiffer indeed if it was built out of the same tubing ect it would be worse so to get it back to where it is now more weight. If you make the car wider it gets more difficult to drive quickly on narrow streets, Really 12 to 18 inchs longer The only thing that a small inrease in lenght might do is allow the fuel to be posistioned directly behind the driver in a cell that went from side to side. IMHO lee

[356Speedster]

Better fuel tank packaging is a good point too. I wonder if the extra space in the engine bay could allow for better air circulations, to aid cooling & exhaust routing too?

I feel the Ultima is guite narrow (it's the same width as my Ariel Atom 3), so a bit more on the track to gain some cabin space, possibly allowing pedal off-sets to not be so big, would also suit me. Moving the wheels towards the corners of the car more to increase the wheelbase, while not overly affecting the full length would still keep shorter than a 911, so I'd do that if I have the ability to do a redesign... of course, inboard suspension and some additional carbon cross-bracing would also be on my fantasy list. There's nowt wrong with dreaming

[TangoGTR]

You basically want a large go-kart Mark

[macgtech]

One of the benefits of the Lemans cars being so large is that the larger surface area gives a significant increase in downforce with very little drag penalty. Since composite materials are generally used throughout there is no huge increase in mass. Greater width also allows the use of longer wishbones, which helps control camber and therefore the tyre contact patch which is critical. Obviously it gives much more flexibility with packaging etc as well.

[GTRCLIVE]

Ultimas are about a 100" WB, most super-cars (those ones most of us can only dream of) are in the 107" WB area. Shorter the WB the more it can turn faster ( generalised statement ), the short WB WRC Pug 206 was very twitchy but perfect for a Rally Car( That's why they shortened the Audi Quattro as well), so it's a finding the least compromise in the package you want to build. I extended my WB to about 103" but only so I could get in my 20 Gallon fuel tank between me and the engine, was going to try and push the driver compartment forward to compensate but that then meant shortening the Wishbones as they would then have to be attached outside the footwell instead of in-front of the front bulkhead..... Life's a Compromise my friends....

[Supertoadylight]

So my girlfriend keeps telling me...

[Storer]

10 posts before someone lowered the tone of this thread.

[Verde]

Growing the car substantially in any of the key measures would almost certainly be a turnoff to me. One of the appeals of the car is its relatively small size, yielding fairly quick steering response and overall maneuverability. The car doesn't seem the least bit twitchy and it has adequate interior room as well. Seems to me that if you can wedge an LS7 and a transaxle into the car and maintain reasonable weight balance, there's nothing much left to do. Would I prefer to slide a little more weight forward for better balance? Sure, but not if it noticeably stretches out the length and maneuverability of the car.
If you want to see a mid-engine kit-car that has, um, larger proportions, check out the GTM. Not my cup of tea.
B

[spatz]

F1 cars simply are that long since they have now a huge tank behind the driver,

[F.C.]

There's more room to be had in the cabin, at the expense of some side pod reduction, if I had to change anything with regard to handling it would be the four corners, uprights, wishbones, suspension & wheels and possibly steering rack.