Breaking in a new owner?
Discussion
At least I think that's the best way to approach this 
The OH has a 4yo Staffy/Pitbull cross, and the plan is for me to move in with her. She openly admits the dog needs discipline, and that doesn't bother me in the slightest - I'm just wondering how best to change 4 years worth of bad habits?
He's relatively obedient - will sit, lie, fetch etc. on command, but constantly pushes the boundaries. Very, very food-orientated, which is probably a good thing in this situation. Very friendly, very docile.
The problems we need to deal with are:
1. Bladder control: I'm used to a dog being able to hold its pee while I'm out at work, but virtually every day she comes back to a puddle on the kitchen floor. Assuming we can't get someone to go in halfway through the day and let him out, is this something that can be corrected, or does he just have a small bladder?
2. Nighttime: this dog refuses to sleep on his own bed. If shut in the kitchen, or downstairs, or even just shut out of the bedroom, he will cry, scratch at the doors and bark. There's a young child in the house too, so leaving him to bark isn't really an option. So, as a result he's left to roam the house. He then spends all night jumping on and off the bed, and at nearly 6 stone, that's quite a disturbance.
AND, to combine the first 2 issues, despite being let out at 10 or 11pm before going to bed, he's whining and nuzzling to be let out at 3 or 4am every night. Not letting him out results in more puddles.
General naughtiness: Now, to be fair, this has improved slightly since I've been involved and he's having decent walks instead of the half hour, on a lead, round the roads he's used to - but he's still a s
tbag 
3. Any bag that is left out, whether it's a sports bag, handbag, baby changing bag or Tesco carrier bag, will be rooted through and the contents strewn over the floor and eaten. Not just chewed, but eaten.
4. Jumping on the dining table! There's nothing on this table to interest him, it's always clean and clear, but at some point in the past there must have been, because he'll jump straight up, sniff round the tabletop and jump down again.
5. Kitchen surfaces: he has to be shut in the kitchen while we're out, or else the puddles end up on the carpet and the sofa cushions become chew toys
but we can't leave anything on the worktops, because anything he can see, smell or reach he'll pull off and chew to pieces.
I'm a firm believer in positive reinforcement, and his food fixation will help with that - but how do I start?
Any ideas and suggestions gratefully received
The OH has a 4yo Staffy/Pitbull cross, and the plan is for me to move in with her. She openly admits the dog needs discipline, and that doesn't bother me in the slightest - I'm just wondering how best to change 4 years worth of bad habits?He's relatively obedient - will sit, lie, fetch etc. on command, but constantly pushes the boundaries. Very, very food-orientated, which is probably a good thing in this situation. Very friendly, very docile.
The problems we need to deal with are:
1. Bladder control: I'm used to a dog being able to hold its pee while I'm out at work, but virtually every day she comes back to a puddle on the kitchen floor. Assuming we can't get someone to go in halfway through the day and let him out, is this something that can be corrected, or does he just have a small bladder?
2. Nighttime: this dog refuses to sleep on his own bed. If shut in the kitchen, or downstairs, or even just shut out of the bedroom, he will cry, scratch at the doors and bark. There's a young child in the house too, so leaving him to bark isn't really an option. So, as a result he's left to roam the house. He then spends all night jumping on and off the bed, and at nearly 6 stone, that's quite a disturbance.
AND, to combine the first 2 issues, despite being let out at 10 or 11pm before going to bed, he's whining and nuzzling to be let out at 3 or 4am every night. Not letting him out results in more puddles.
General naughtiness: Now, to be fair, this has improved slightly since I've been involved and he's having decent walks instead of the half hour, on a lead, round the roads he's used to - but he's still a s
tbag 3. Any bag that is left out, whether it's a sports bag, handbag, baby changing bag or Tesco carrier bag, will be rooted through and the contents strewn over the floor and eaten. Not just chewed, but eaten.
4. Jumping on the dining table! There's nothing on this table to interest him, it's always clean and clear, but at some point in the past there must have been, because he'll jump straight up, sniff round the tabletop and jump down again.
5. Kitchen surfaces: he has to be shut in the kitchen while we're out, or else the puddles end up on the carpet and the sofa cushions become chew toys
but we can't leave anything on the worktops, because anything he can see, smell or reach he'll pull off and chew to pieces.I'm a firm believer in positive reinforcement, and his food fixation will help with that - but how do I start?
Any ideas and suggestions gratefully received
Hopefully Mrs G will sea this and offer you some excellent advise (or Nick) but I'd be wary of taking too many potentially conflicting opinions which could cause more problems.
I'm sure crate training will be advised and back to the beginning re toilet training, though a vet ck should be done to ensure no medical reason for the lack of bladder control.
Any training with a 4yr old dog (esp bull breed) will take time and A LOT of patience.
Ask your vets if they have a nurse or a good dog behaviourist. They should have recent qualifications.
Just as a side. If it really is a pit cross (in the UK) then it should be muzzled outside, not let off the lead and neutered and microchipped (I think any pit mix is actually classed a banned breed and can be seized and the above only done if authorities ok it). If this is not the case just call it a staffy cross (esp if you don't know for sure!)
Good luck, quite a few challenges ahead but there is no reason why his behaviour shouldn't get better with good positive reward based training and perseverance.
I'm sure crate training will be advised and back to the beginning re toilet training, though a vet ck should be done to ensure no medical reason for the lack of bladder control.
Any training with a 4yr old dog (esp bull breed) will take time and A LOT of patience.
Ask your vets if they have a nurse or a good dog behaviourist. They should have recent qualifications.
Just as a side. If it really is a pit cross (in the UK) then it should be muzzled outside, not let off the lead and neutered and microchipped (I think any pit mix is actually classed a banned breed and can be seized and the above only done if authorities ok it). If this is not the case just call it a staffy cross (esp if you don't know for sure!)
Good luck, quite a few challenges ahead but there is no reason why his behaviour shouldn't get better with good positive reward based training and perseverance.
Edited by bexVN on Wednesday 18th January 09:02
Edited by bexVN on Wednesday 18th January 10:51
1 – How long are you out at work? Personally I would never leave my dogs to hold their bladder for more than 4 hours. At the moment I’m at home all the time, but when I was at college it meant instead of having a nice chill out session with my friends I rushed home every day, sorted the dogs out and grabbed some food for myself if I had time! If you can’t make it home at lunchtime, you do have alternatives: a pet sitter popping in, installing a dog flap in the door so he can freely relieve himself in the day. If you crate trained him then he wouldn’t mess in there, but IMHO to leave him locked up for more than 4 hours when he needs to relieve himself is too much.
2 – For this, however, I would recommend crate training! If done correctly, he will see the crate as his safe little den and being in there will be a positive thing he does off his own back.
The other naughty behaviours sound like he’s doing them out of sheer boredom! How much mental stimulation does he get? There’s lot of things you can do to tire an active mind; flyball, agility, general obedience can all be done at home as well as in classes. Smaller things like stuffed kongs (frozen to make them last longer), nina ottoson toys and just simple ‘hide and seek’ games can all go a long way to making him focus his mental energy on positive things.
2 – For this, however, I would recommend crate training! If done correctly, he will see the crate as his safe little den and being in there will be a positive thing he does off his own back.
The other naughty behaviours sound like he’s doing them out of sheer boredom! How much mental stimulation does he get? There’s lot of things you can do to tire an active mind; flyball, agility, general obedience can all be done at home as well as in classes. Smaller things like stuffed kongs (frozen to make them last longer), nina ottoson toys and just simple ‘hide and seek’ games can all go a long way to making him focus his mental energy on positive things.
Most young fit dogs of most sizes should be able to hold their bladders for at least 6 hours (they do overnight!) My whippet has held his for 10hrs (got locked out of the house and couldn't get to him for a while). I was expecting a mess but nothing. Not saying this is ok but just showing that the dog should not be peeing in the house after 4hrs unless medical problem or untrained.
bexVN said:
Most young fit dogs of most sizes should be able to hold their bladders for at least 6 hours (they do overnight!) My whippet has held his for 10hrs (got locked out of the house and couldn't get to him for a while). I was expecting a mess but nothing. Not saying this is ok but just showing that the dog should not be peeing in the house after 4hrs unless medical problem or untrained.
I did say that I don't leave mine for more than 4 hours, not that 4 hours is a hard and fast time everyone needs to follow. Personally, I wouldn't want to hold myself for that long so I don't expect it of my dogs.
Our old Collie would hold his bladder indefinitely, he just wouldn't mess in the house, but all dogs are different. Night time isn't really a fair comparison IMO, dogs aren't nocturnal so at night they sleep, in the day they are up and about.
Mrs Grumpy said:
It would help to know the routine:
What and when fed
How much exercise, when and how often
What other input? Play? Training?
And - you do know the owning of a pit is illegal?
Thanks for all the replies so far. Right:What and when fed
How much exercise, when and how often
What other input? Play? Training?
And - you do know the owning of a pit is illegal?
Now fed on Iams, split morning and night.
Daily walks, varying from 30 mins around the streets to 2 or 3 hours through the woods and fields. The long ones are more frequent now I'm involved.
AFAIK he hasn't had a lot of other input - when there are people around all he wants to do is be as close to them as possible and be fussed
I wouldn't expect him to control his bladder for a ridiculous length of time, but I would expect him to be able to last overnight - I know a lot of other dog owners, and apart from the puppy stage not one of them has to get up in the night with their dogs.
About the pitbull thing - I did think they were on the dangerous dogs list, and with good reason. But she's owned this dog for 4 years, it's seen and known at the vet's for checkups and boosters, he is neutered and chipped, and TBH to look at him he's Staffy through and through - I had no idea he was a cross until I was told.
I'll see what I can do about getting her to muzzle him if that's what's needed - but if it IS a pitbull cross, and if it IS illegal to own, then I'll do my utmost to have it removed from the house. She's got a young child, I've got 2 of my own - I wouldn't be able to forgive myself if something happened and I knew.
I would say just because he has pit in him does not mean he is suddenly going to turn savage. They can and do make the most amazing pets (plenty of on line evidence in America) It's purely based on the law in this country re this breed and it's mix. You are in a difficult situation, if you own up he will be seized and poss put down yet he has done nothing wrong. You don't somebody eventually reports you instead and same scenario occurs.
I do remember a pure pit that we didn't report (as a vets) he was over 10 when the law came in and had never so much as growled at another dog or person. He lived til he was 15. We just didn't think it was right to put the dog through all the stress at his age esp as he'd never caused trouble.
Have a good read up on line and talk to your partner and prob his vet.
Eta as Mrs G has just posted prob best to stick with staffie mix.
I do remember a pure pit that we didn't report (as a vets) he was over 10 when the law came in and had never so much as growled at another dog or person. He lived til he was 15. We just didn't think it was right to put the dog through all the stress at his age esp as he'd never caused trouble.
Have a good read up on line and talk to your partner and prob his vet.
Eta as Mrs G has just posted prob best to stick with staffie mix.
Edited by bexVN on Friday 20th January 11:03
parapaul said:
Thanks for all the replies so far. Right:
Now fed on Iams, split morning and night.
Daily walks, varying from 30 mins around the streets to 2 or 3 hours through the woods and fields. The long ones are more frequent now I'm involved.
AFAIK he hasn't had a lot of other input - when there are people around all he wants to do is be as close to them as possible and be fussed
I wouldn't expect him to control his bladder for a ridiculous length of time, but I would expect him to be able to last overnight - I know a lot of other dog owners, and apart from the puppy stage not one of them has to get up in the night with their dogs.
About the pitbull thing - I did think they were on the dangerous dogs list, and with good reason. But she's owned this dog for 4 years, it's seen and known at the vet's for checkups and boosters, he is neutered and chipped, and TBH to look at him he's Staffy through and through - I had no idea he was a cross until I was told.
I'll see what I can do about getting her to muzzle him if that's what's needed - but if it IS a pitbull cross, and if it IS illegal to own, then I'll do my utmost to have it removed from the house. She's got a young child, I've got 2 of my own - I wouldn't be able to forgive myself if something happened and I knew.
Thanks for the replies Now fed on Iams, split morning and night.
Daily walks, varying from 30 mins around the streets to 2 or 3 hours through the woods and fields. The long ones are more frequent now I'm involved.
AFAIK he hasn't had a lot of other input - when there are people around all he wants to do is be as close to them as possible and be fussed
I wouldn't expect him to control his bladder for a ridiculous length of time, but I would expect him to be able to last overnight - I know a lot of other dog owners, and apart from the puppy stage not one of them has to get up in the night with their dogs.
About the pitbull thing - I did think they were on the dangerous dogs list, and with good reason. But she's owned this dog for 4 years, it's seen and known at the vet's for checkups and boosters, he is neutered and chipped, and TBH to look at him he's Staffy through and through - I had no idea he was a cross until I was told.
I'll see what I can do about getting her to muzzle him if that's what's needed - but if it IS a pitbull cross, and if it IS illegal to own, then I'll do my utmost to have it removed from the house. She's got a young child, I've got 2 of my own - I wouldn't be able to forgive myself if something happened and I knew.
Iams isn't too bad a food. As long as he's not fed on anything with colourings or additives and dogs don't tolerate grains very well either. I prefer something like Skinners, Burns, JWB, Applaws, Bob and Lush...
I think a lot of his problems sound like boredom and needing more input TBH. Two walks a day would be a good thing. Maybe one longer off lead and another shorter one on lead? Perhaps you could make the shorter one last thing at night so he has a chance to eliminate thoroughly before bed?
I would be doing a load more training and play time with him. Training, especially free shaping using a clicker, is very tiring for a dog as they need to use their brains. Very useful if you can't get them out for exercise for whatever reason. 10 mins of free shaping should do the trick. I love free shaping. You can teach your dog to do some awesome things! Plenty of info out there on clicker training, but also look on Karen Pryor's website: http://www.clickertraining.com/
My long walks consist of some training time, some play time, some chill time and some just going off sniffing and being a dog time. Builds up the bond and gives the dog something interesting to do rather than just making their own entertainment.
Bladder control - yes he should be able to hold it for longer. Either you need to take a specimen to the vet to see if he has something like a urine infection, or he simply hasn't been trained to hold it. Also, what are you using to clean it up with? If the smell isn't totally removed it will encourage him to go back to the same spot. Don't use bleach as anything ammonia based makes them want to go there more! Either use a proprietary cleaning solution from a pet shop, or a solution of bio washing powder.
Pitbulls - yes they are a banned breed, but they are also usually very loving towards their people. There is no reason to think he will suddenly turn. Also, the voluntary register has been closed since 1991, so the neutering, chipping and muzzling thing will make no odds. I would just say he is a staffie. End of.
Does he have toys/chews/stuff to keep him occupied? How about some filled and/or frozen Kongs or smoked bones? Dogs find chewing and licking a stress reliever and it keeps them occupied. You could also give him a box full of scrunched up paper with treats in, so he can rifle through it. Scatter feed in the garden? Makes mealtimes more interesting and teaches them to use their nose. Feed using a treat ball as well.
At night - can you try a baby gate on the bedroom door and put his bed the other side of it? He can still see you, but you should be able to get a good night's sleep.
It also sounds like perhaps no-one has shown him how they would like him to behave, so he is just doing what works for him. Jump up on things and get attention, as perhaps he doesn't get it otherwise? Any attention is better than none for him. Ask him to get off and reward for being off (click and treat!)
So - more exercise, more training, more play, more interaction - should all make him a happy, relaxed and tired boy
Hey - go for the clicker training thing!
I tried it with my little madam on Mrs Grumpy's advice... works a treat. She used to be a terror for putting paws on the table to get food, but "off" click........
(Not managed to get any cool moves put together yet though - she's easily confused, bless her.)
I tried it with my little madam on Mrs Grumpy's advice... works a treat. She used to be a terror for putting paws on the table to get food, but "off" click........
(Not managed to get any cool moves put together yet though - she's easily confused, bless her.)
I find the thing about free shaping is breaking it down into really tiny steps
Both of mine now will nose and paw touch pretty much anything as soon as I put down as they are familiar with free shaping. I got Bella to run out and around a bucket and am shaping her to do agility weaves. I also shaped her up the A frame as she was scared of it
She does a load of 'tricks' and has won a couple of best trick classes. I think I may have a look at doing heelwork to music with her, as well as agility and flyball. Well, she is a collie!
She's taught me a lot about timing as what you click is what you get - like taking a photo. If I am a split second out with the timing, she's learnt what I didn't mean her to!
Both of mine now will nose and paw touch pretty much anything as soon as I put down as they are familiar with free shaping. I got Bella to run out and around a bucket and am shaping her to do agility weaves. I also shaped her up the A frame as she was scared of it
She does a load of 'tricks' and has won a couple of best trick classes. I think I may have a look at doing heelwork to music with her, as well as agility and flyball. Well, she is a collie! She's taught me a lot about timing as what you click is what you get - like taking a photo. If I am a split second out with the timing, she's learnt what I didn't mean her to!
Well, so far, it's going OK.
A combination of better exercise and some very minor changes to his routine have resulted in dry floors while we're at work, and no more begging to be let out at night. Result
Behaviour, however, remains a challenge I'm not sure whether this dog is genuinely stupid (in a loving, dopey kinda way ),bloody-minded or a lot smarter than we're giving him credit for.
He will do anything for a treat, and I mean anything. If he knows I have food, he will sit, lie, stay, get off, get down... whatever he's told to - first time. The instant he realises I don't have a treat, or that I've exhausted whatever supply I had, he switches off and won't do a thing. I strongly suspect it's attention seeking, but if it is, he won't win
A combination of better exercise and some very minor changes to his routine have resulted in dry floors while we're at work, and no more begging to be let out at night. Result
Behaviour, however, remains a challenge
I'm not sure whether this dog is genuinely stupid (in a loving, dopey kinda way ),bloody-minded or a lot smarter than we're giving him credit for.He will do anything for a treat, and I mean anything. If he knows I have food, he will sit, lie, stay, get off, get down... whatever he's told to - first time. The instant he realises I don't have a treat, or that I've exhausted whatever supply I had, he switches off and won't do a thing. I strongly suspect it's attention seeking, but if it is, he won't win
bexVN said:
Most young fit dogs of most sizes should be able to hold their bladders for at least 6 hours (they do overnight!) My whippet has held his for 10hrs (got locked out of the house and couldn't get to him for a while). I was expecting a mess but nothing. Not saying this is ok but just showing that the dog should not be peeing in the house after 4hrs unless medical problem or untrained.
I agree- mine is a very house proud 11 year old. Last out for a P is about 2200. He's gone till almost nine in morning without asking. Sometimes earlier, sometimes later . But anything else - he's a "not in my back yard " dog .But again, I'm a late person. my mrs is an early morning person .and he can if he wishes go out early. But ,it's not common. He's been known to wait till at least eight before wanting out ( he makes noises when mrs gets up at six and sits beside him. He's not happy at being disturbed). Previous dogs were all female- who seemed to do a lot more miles to the gallon .
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