Car at garage for a year and still not ready - Advice needed
Discussion
As I'm new to this forum and this is my first post I'd like to start by saying hello to everybody.
I'm here as I need some impartial advice on a problem I'm having and thought this would be a good place to start. I'm hoping you knowledgeable folks can offer some suggestions or point me in the right direction.
Apologies in advance if this in the wrong place or I'm breaking forum rules by making this my first post.
A bit of background is probably helpful at this point.
I own a sports car which is my pride and joy and have pumped a lot of money into modifying it over the years. For the past few years I've been taking the car to a person who specialises in working only on this particular marque and have spent a fair few thousand pounds with him in the past, current project not included. Up until now I've always had a good relationship with this person and the work he has done for me in the past has been top notch.
In February 2011 I took the car to him to have some go faster bits fitted that I'd purchased. Nothing major, all bolt on stuff. While there he sold me on the idea of doing a wire tuck mod and we jointly agreed that the engine and engine bay would also be detailed to show standards.
No quote on the price was given, just a mention that it was going to cost a few grand. I was flexible with cost to a certain point and happy to go with this as having past experience of him I knew his rates were fair, his work was good and I trusted him. We agreed on a deadline of July 2011 for the work to be completed.
Initially things went well and good progress was made but after a few months the work started to slow down, eventually to the point where very little was getting done for weeks and then months at a time. The July deadline was reached and the car was nowhere near ready. A new deadline of August was set and missed, then September, also missed. After each missed deadline he was all apologies, accepting responsibility and promising that it would soon be ready, definitely be ready by the end of the year etc. I never gave him any grief about it, just accepted that it was a big project and it would be worth the wait. The work was proceeding, and still is proceeding, but at a painfully slow rate.
I helped out as much as I could over the course of the year, taking away various engine parts to get them painted and polished and paying for this stuff myself. Come November 2011 I started to get a little impatient with all the broken promises so started to put a bit of friendy pressure on, asking for a list of the work still to be done and an estimate of how long it will take. As he's a 150 mile round trip away from me I'm having to communicate by way of mobile and texts and it's around this point where he disappears off the radar, ignoring my calls and not replying to my texts.
I then paid him a surprise visit in mid November to find my car sitting in the corner of his workshop gathering dust, very little further forward than when I last saw it in September. At this point I made it clear in the friendliest way possible that I wasn't happy with the lack of progress and broken promises and wanted a firm date of when my car would definitely be ready. I asked him to consider everything that was still to be done to the car and set a realistic deadline that he felt capable of meeting. The new, final deadline was set for March 2012 with him saying it would enough time to get the job done.
I should mention at this point that he'd been asking me for money at regular intervals during 2011 and I've obliged on each occasion. So far I've paid him just over three thousand pounds.
Since November last year I've been asking for a break down of his spend, wanting to know how much of my 3k has been spent on parts and his out of pocket costs and how much has gone on labour. I've also been asking for an estimate of how much more this is going to cost. Not an unreasonable request I feel! Each time I ask he promises me he'll do it that evening but so far I've had nothing back from him and haven't a clue what my money has been spent on.
I'm happy with the quality of the work so far and don't doubt his technical ability to get the job done but am now totally hacked off with all the broken promises, avoidance of communication, apparent reluctance to give me a break down of the costs to date and apparent lack of interest on his part in finishing this job. I've no idea when it will get finished, no idea of what my money has been spent on and no idea of how much more it's going to cost me.
I know exactly what the problem is but have no idea of how to go about resolving it. I get on his case, he ignores me. I give him plenty of space, nothing gets done. He's got a great reputation in the scene of the marque of car I own and is very popular and respected in that scene. Unfortunately he's a one man band, is always fully booked and therein lies part of the problem. I've had to endure a year of seeing a constant stream of traffic go through his workshop while my car just sits there with little or no work being done on it.
To be fair there's still 6 weeks to go and still a very small chance the car will be ready by March but going on the experiences of the last year I'm not holding my breath and need to have a plan of action for what do to in the eventuality that this last deadline isn't met.
As far as I see it I have limited choices. Having already paid a large wedge of cash, the bulk of the costs according to him, there's little incentive for him to finish the job anytime soon as far as I'm concerned so I can suck it up and take a leap of faith, leave the car with him, accept his terms and hope it does eventually get done while at the same time having lost all faith in pretty much anything he's telling me from this point on.
Or I can get the car recovered (it's not currently driveable) and find another specialist to finish the job. If indeed there's anybody out there prepared to take it on. This would obviously involve me shelling out more money to get the car finished.
I feel I've been very patient to date and have given this person more than ample opportunity to get the job done. I've tried at all times to see it from his position but feel this has gone beyond what is reasonably acceptable and am fast approaching my limit. As things stand it's likely the car will be pulled in March if it isn't ready but this approach opens a new can of worms. Relations between us are currently good and he has no idea I'm considering taking my car back but things could turn sour very quickly if and when I drop this bombshell and the potential is there for this to become a very difficult situation.
What are my rights on getting my property back? What am I supposed to do if he refuses to give me my car back or wants more money before releasing it?
Should I speak to CAB or Trading Standards? Seek legal advice?
Any suggestions or advice would be very much welcome at this point!
Thanks in advance and apologies for the novel!
I'm here as I need some impartial advice on a problem I'm having and thought this would be a good place to start. I'm hoping you knowledgeable folks can offer some suggestions or point me in the right direction.
Apologies in advance if this in the wrong place or I'm breaking forum rules by making this my first post.
A bit of background is probably helpful at this point.
I own a sports car which is my pride and joy and have pumped a lot of money into modifying it over the years. For the past few years I've been taking the car to a person who specialises in working only on this particular marque and have spent a fair few thousand pounds with him in the past, current project not included. Up until now I've always had a good relationship with this person and the work he has done for me in the past has been top notch.
In February 2011 I took the car to him to have some go faster bits fitted that I'd purchased. Nothing major, all bolt on stuff. While there he sold me on the idea of doing a wire tuck mod and we jointly agreed that the engine and engine bay would also be detailed to show standards.
No quote on the price was given, just a mention that it was going to cost a few grand. I was flexible with cost to a certain point and happy to go with this as having past experience of him I knew his rates were fair, his work was good and I trusted him. We agreed on a deadline of July 2011 for the work to be completed.
Initially things went well and good progress was made but after a few months the work started to slow down, eventually to the point where very little was getting done for weeks and then months at a time. The July deadline was reached and the car was nowhere near ready. A new deadline of August was set and missed, then September, also missed. After each missed deadline he was all apologies, accepting responsibility and promising that it would soon be ready, definitely be ready by the end of the year etc. I never gave him any grief about it, just accepted that it was a big project and it would be worth the wait. The work was proceeding, and still is proceeding, but at a painfully slow rate.
I helped out as much as I could over the course of the year, taking away various engine parts to get them painted and polished and paying for this stuff myself. Come November 2011 I started to get a little impatient with all the broken promises so started to put a bit of friendy pressure on, asking for a list of the work still to be done and an estimate of how long it will take. As he's a 150 mile round trip away from me I'm having to communicate by way of mobile and texts and it's around this point where he disappears off the radar, ignoring my calls and not replying to my texts.
I then paid him a surprise visit in mid November to find my car sitting in the corner of his workshop gathering dust, very little further forward than when I last saw it in September. At this point I made it clear in the friendliest way possible that I wasn't happy with the lack of progress and broken promises and wanted a firm date of when my car would definitely be ready. I asked him to consider everything that was still to be done to the car and set a realistic deadline that he felt capable of meeting. The new, final deadline was set for March 2012 with him saying it would enough time to get the job done.
I should mention at this point that he'd been asking me for money at regular intervals during 2011 and I've obliged on each occasion. So far I've paid him just over three thousand pounds.
Since November last year I've been asking for a break down of his spend, wanting to know how much of my 3k has been spent on parts and his out of pocket costs and how much has gone on labour. I've also been asking for an estimate of how much more this is going to cost. Not an unreasonable request I feel! Each time I ask he promises me he'll do it that evening but so far I've had nothing back from him and haven't a clue what my money has been spent on.
I'm happy with the quality of the work so far and don't doubt his technical ability to get the job done but am now totally hacked off with all the broken promises, avoidance of communication, apparent reluctance to give me a break down of the costs to date and apparent lack of interest on his part in finishing this job. I've no idea when it will get finished, no idea of what my money has been spent on and no idea of how much more it's going to cost me.
I know exactly what the problem is but have no idea of how to go about resolving it. I get on his case, he ignores me. I give him plenty of space, nothing gets done. He's got a great reputation in the scene of the marque of car I own and is very popular and respected in that scene. Unfortunately he's a one man band, is always fully booked and therein lies part of the problem. I've had to endure a year of seeing a constant stream of traffic go through his workshop while my car just sits there with little or no work being done on it.
To be fair there's still 6 weeks to go and still a very small chance the car will be ready by March but going on the experiences of the last year I'm not holding my breath and need to have a plan of action for what do to in the eventuality that this last deadline isn't met.
As far as I see it I have limited choices. Having already paid a large wedge of cash, the bulk of the costs according to him, there's little incentive for him to finish the job anytime soon as far as I'm concerned so I can suck it up and take a leap of faith, leave the car with him, accept his terms and hope it does eventually get done while at the same time having lost all faith in pretty much anything he's telling me from this point on.
Or I can get the car recovered (it's not currently driveable) and find another specialist to finish the job. If indeed there's anybody out there prepared to take it on. This would obviously involve me shelling out more money to get the car finished.
I feel I've been very patient to date and have given this person more than ample opportunity to get the job done. I've tried at all times to see it from his position but feel this has gone beyond what is reasonably acceptable and am fast approaching my limit. As things stand it's likely the car will be pulled in March if it isn't ready but this approach opens a new can of worms. Relations between us are currently good and he has no idea I'm considering taking my car back but things could turn sour very quickly if and when I drop this bombshell and the potential is there for this to become a very difficult situation.
What are my rights on getting my property back? What am I supposed to do if he refuses to give me my car back or wants more money before releasing it?
Should I speak to CAB or Trading Standards? Seek legal advice?
Any suggestions or advice would be very much welcome at this point!
Thanks in advance and apologies for the novel!
Edited by Jenson22 on Thursday 19th January 01:54
soad said:
Do you seriously believe he'll finish it?! Can't see it myself after all this time.
Recover the car, I'd say. Then take it elsewhere to finish, bring this sorry saga to the end.
That, plus discreetly (rather than publically and open yourself up for a case of libel) make it known in the scene you say he earns a living from. Recover the car, I'd say. Then take it elsewhere to finish, bring this sorry saga to the end.
You have been taken for a mug and it needs to be stopped. There will be further broken promises, further requests for cash etc.
Also, welcome to PH and good luck getting this resolved with the minimum of further inconvenience.
You could try starting a couple of "look at the mods on my car" threads on the main forums for your type of car, lots of photos and details of what's being done and mention the march completion date.
Ask your guy for regular photos of progress for the thread.
Other than that regular visits, irrespective of distance, is the way to go. If he needs friendly pressure then it's well past time to apply some.
Ask your guy for regular photos of progress for the thread.
Other than that regular visits, irrespective of distance, is the way to go. If he needs friendly pressure then it's well past time to apply some.
Given you're going for a "wire tuck", I'd say it's a VW.
Problem is he's used you as a cash cow to maintain his business, and you've obliged. Like you say he has no incentive to finish the job.
I would take the car elsewhere immediately. The VW scene is small, tell a few people about your bad experience and word soon spreads.
I've had a similar experience in the past, I'm in the throws of taking someone to court who did a similar thing with my Mk2 Golf.
Problem is he's used you as a cash cow to maintain his business, and you've obliged. Like you say he has no incentive to finish the job.
I would take the car elsewhere immediately. The VW scene is small, tell a few people about your bad experience and word soon spreads.
I've had a similar experience in the past, I'm in the throws of taking someone to court who did a similar thing with my Mk2 Golf.
david_h said:
Given you're going for a "wire tuck", I'd say it's a VW.
Problem is he's used you as a cash cow to maintain his business, and you've obliged. Like you say he has no incentive to finish the job.
I would take the car elsewhere immediately. The VW scene is small, tell a few people about your bad experience and word soon spreads.
I've had a similar experience in the past, I'm in the throws of taking someone to court who did a similar thing with my Mk2 Golf.
Could be a Honda.Problem is he's used you as a cash cow to maintain his business, and you've obliged. Like you say he has no incentive to finish the job.
I would take the car elsewhere immediately. The VW scene is small, tell a few people about your bad experience and word soon spreads.
I've had a similar experience in the past, I'm in the throws of taking someone to court who did a similar thing with my Mk2 Golf.
Zwolf said:
That, plus discreetly (rather than publically and open yourself up for a case of libel) make it known in the scene you say he earns a living from.
The truth is an absolute defence to any claim of libel/slander... OP, in your shoes you have to put in writing that you give him until X date to complete the vehickle to a satisfactory condition and after that point you will have no choice but to recover the car and have it taken elsewhere.
Swoxy said:
Mk 1 or 2? Go unannounced with a mate and a trailer or recovery truck and collect your car. Instruct a local solicitor to sue him, or do it yourself.
Totally agree with this sentiment. I would suggest, from experience, that this guy has already a long list of creditors, who will no longer supply him, and therefore he cannot complete the job. He is hanging onto his business by his figure nails.He is probably lying to himself as well as his customers/suppliers. Not uncommon.
Immediately arrange to collect all of your property, before he stops trading and all his assets are siezed.
Sadly, if I am correct, there is little chance of recouping your money, so act without delay.
Get back here afterwards, and I expect a more reliable trader will be found.
I've seen a few of these topics recently, when I had my MK2 Golf moddified and resprayed I didn't give the bloke any money until it was done and he didn't ask me for any until it was done, why would you pay whe nit's not done?
The mere fact that he needs money to keep it gpoing would worry me as he clearly isn't very financially sound other wise he'd just do things the normal way.
You don't go to a restaurant and pay for your starter before your main!
The mere fact that he needs money to keep it gpoing would worry me as he clearly isn't very financially sound other wise he'd just do things the normal way.
You don't go to a restaurant and pay for your starter before your main!
Edited by missing the VR6 on Thursday 19th January 09:33
I think it has pretty much come to recovering your car.
This does seem to be a common problem with some garages and it seems to be that they take on a bit of a long termer when things are quiet, but then work picks up - and rather that do what they should do which is block out half a day or a day a week for a few weeks to get the damn thing done, it just keeps getting put off in favour of other quick turn-around work. It's not on at all.
Get it taken away, and try get it booked in somewhere else I guess. And hope you manage to get some sort of financial settlement out of the whole fiasco.
This does seem to be a common problem with some garages and it seems to be that they take on a bit of a long termer when things are quiet, but then work picks up - and rather that do what they should do which is block out half a day or a day a week for a few weeks to get the damn thing done, it just keeps getting put off in favour of other quick turn-around work. It's not on at all.
Get it taken away, and try get it booked in somewhere else I guess. And hope you manage to get some sort of financial settlement out of the whole fiasco.
Speaking from experience my advice would be to get the car back now...
You are, as others have said, providing money to him to shore up his business in all likelyhood. The longer you leave it the more impossible the situation will become, the more money you will have tied up with the garage and the more time you will have tied up as well.
Do not become too friendly with the person carrying out the work as this will also further complicate things.
You have tried all the things that should have provoked either a rapid delivery of the finished work or an admission that the project is not something he can do, wants to do or can afford to do.
I say these things as some one who has made all the above errors and now finds himself still waiting for work to completed after 6 years that was promised in 6 months and is now giving up and scrapping the car.
In fact your description of how things are going sounds worryingly similar to my experiences, get out now - seriously.
You are, as others have said, providing money to him to shore up his business in all likelyhood. The longer you leave it the more impossible the situation will become, the more money you will have tied up with the garage and the more time you will have tied up as well.
Do not become too friendly with the person carrying out the work as this will also further complicate things.
You have tried all the things that should have provoked either a rapid delivery of the finished work or an admission that the project is not something he can do, wants to do or can afford to do.
I say these things as some one who has made all the above errors and now finds himself still waiting for work to completed after 6 years that was promised in 6 months and is now giving up and scrapping the car.
In fact your description of how things are going sounds worryingly similar to my experiences, get out now - seriously.
Edited by GnuBee on Thursday 19th January 11:49
R12HCO said:
Would this be an old bmw?
Im sure I have read a very very similar story on here before.
New username?
If it is an old BMW and the garage concerned has used excuses including:Im sure I have read a very very similar story on here before.
New username?
- Assuming its the same** ; Im sure everybody told you to set a deadline and stick to it. If it isnt met take civil action against him?
1) Trying to get a dyno up and running
2) Working on a 280bhp Clio engine
3) Parts not arriving or consistently arriving and being wrong
4) The manufacturer not knowing seemingly obvious things like bearing specifications
Then I know who you are dealing with and it may be worth you PMing me directly.
Cashflow can make some funny things happen in the business world. I would always be suspicious of mechanics who ask for large deposits up front for anything other than solid components like gearboxes or engines. I don't think you should ever pay for labour up front. There's no excuse for charging labour up front when he runs the business solo, who has he got to pay wages for?
Also, the idea that there is steady traffic running through the workshop suggests the guy is playing catch-up finance wise. If he goes too long without new jobs (and the payment for them) then he can't afford to keep the lights on. Couple this with the fact that there's no more profit left in your car and you can see why it is never going to be finished.
I'd say get it out of there ASAP. I'd tell him this is what you intend to do just in case there is a very remote possibility that this will spur him into action. You could be apologetic and make out like it's your fault because you want the car back really soon and then you'll still have the option to go back for little bolt-on bits as you did before. Best not to sour the water though. Wouldn't want to find your car covered in scratches one day for no apparent reason.
Also, the idea that there is steady traffic running through the workshop suggests the guy is playing catch-up finance wise. If he goes too long without new jobs (and the payment for them) then he can't afford to keep the lights on. Couple this with the fact that there's no more profit left in your car and you can see why it is never going to be finished.
I'd say get it out of there ASAP. I'd tell him this is what you intend to do just in case there is a very remote possibility that this will spur him into action. You could be apologetic and make out like it's your fault because you want the car back really soon and then you'll still have the option to go back for little bolt-on bits as you did before. Best not to sour the water though. Wouldn't want to find your car covered in scratches one day for no apparent reason.
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