To use a Financial Adviser or not

[cailean]

Manage your own ISA/SIPP, only you will do it properly and give it the attention you want. You will have to do your homework and invest some of your own time. SJP cold call me about once a month, they sound desperate and can't take No for an answer.

[cailean]

Having said that, my boss who is nearing retirement recently started using an adviser, but it is a one to one basis with phone calls whenever he wants. I am not sure what his minimum fund size is or fee structure but I could find out name, details etc. if you want.

[F458]

The first thing to do if you are involved with SJP is to complain in writing to the head office in Cirencester, not to your SJP 'partner'. They tell you that their advice is 'guaranteed' however when it really comes down to it that's not worth the paper it's written on. SJP hate bad publicity and do go a long way to pay people off to shut them up!! You need to decide if the 'partner' has made you aware of all their funds and selected a few that match your risk profile for starters. If he hasn't then they will make good your loss. If he has and the fund performance has been dire then you need to question whether the fund you opted for was rated correctly by SJP to be the risk it is. Believe it or not your SJP 'partner' is NOT allowed to recommend a particular fund from SJPs selection, he CANNOT and SHOULD NOT make that choice for you. Remember with SJP the product charge and the fund charge is bundled together and you never quite know who you are paying for what, that's all part of the smoke and mirrors I'm afraid..... Also if you are going to move away from them then be aware that there are early exit penalties on virtually all of their products/funds, these start at 6% in year 1 and reduce by 1% each year to 0% at the end of year 6.

It's quite topical really as SJP had their 1 day conference in London today where the top salesman pick up their prizes and a lot of willy waving goes on! They announce what trips they have for qualifying partners and get a few inspirational people to talk to the sales team. They have had Bill Clinton, David Beckham, Cirque de Solei, Michael Johnson, Zara Phillips etc etc over the years.

SJP are a slick sales and marketing operation but are not financial advisors! They suck in struggling IFA's by offering them big loans and the opportunity to churn their whole client bank over to SJP so when a new guy starts there he has a great time of it... Then the 'partner' has to find new business as the trail commission that the SJP pay the partner is actually very low compared to IFA trail commissions thus it is a new business/new sales driven business model. The partners need to keep selling to put food on the table!! The biggest joke of all is that you have a supposed upmarket sales force dealing with 'high net worth' individuals yet the 'partner' is desperate for you to do the business so that he can pay his mortgage that month!!

Start off with a written complaint to head office and see where that leads you.

[1point7bar]

F458 is spot on. SJP are a front loaded sales machine. The funds are subbied out and there are layer upon layers of fees. If you suspect mis-selling keep mentioning the word Ombudsman and act like you have OCD.

[F458]

tighnamara - look don't be harsh on yourself! SJP sell a good 'story' and they are never going to lose all your money! However they are economical with the truth! And do have a one size fits all approach. What exact SJP funds have you got money in? The reason I ask is that I know people who got compensated who were in one of their property funds which was not risk rated correctly and also more recently they have switched over client funds from the THSP managed fund (I think)in to a new Global Equity fund (I think) and some clients have not been told this! What I am saying is, know exactly what you are going to complain about before you start! As if the 'partner' has acted correctly and its just down to poor fund performance (but you were in the correct funds for you) then you will never get anything back from them. Whereas if it is something they have compensated for before your chances of success are much higher!

Also are you clear exactly what your charges are? This is another area which the 'partner' may not have made you aware of! The last 'for internal use only' document I saw with fund charges on had many of them over 2% per year depending if it was life/pension or ISA money.

SJP do take complaints seriously and the 'partner' will have it marked down on his record, thats why I said complain to SJP direct not to just the 'partner' as he will want to talk you in to just leaving it where it is and to 'see how it goes' for the next 12 months.

I am not sure what you are saying regarding your SIPP, there is no reason why you cannot have a SIPP with trustees etc etc and still have investments with SJP? I don't know enough about it to be honest. However if he has advised you on a pension transfer then I would imagine he has had to use outsourced paraplanners to do this as I doubt he would have the necessary qualifications to this this himself, although I may be wrong.

I do know a lot about SJP, I have a few acquaintances who have both worked for them and been clients of theirs. They are not really a very nice company to be honest. By that I mean the people at the top are only bothered about lining their own pockets with share options etc etc and are not bothered about their clients financial welfare! To be honest if I were you I would start by writing to the top man, David Bellamy, and see what happens. But like all letters of complaint make sure you know what you are complaining about, if you don't get a resolution there then got to the FOS and the FSA however the best place to go to would be the local/national press as SJP would hate that. The Mail On Sunday hate SJP so thats the place to start nationally! But don't give up and be prepared to play the long game with them as usually they just hope you will go away as lots of others do. All the best with it and let us know how it goes..

Edited by F458 on Saturday 21st January 10:57

[cailean]

Wow. Great posts, don't you just love the PH masses and willingness to help out fellow PH'ers for nothing in return.

[darreni]

I own an IFA firm & we get approached by SJP often & have also had some of their ex advisers contact us looking for positions.

I'd not want my company associated with either.

[F458]

darreni thats interesting, did they approach you because they wanted you to join their sales team?

[F458]

This was the news at yesterdays "Jamboree" in London:



PRESS RELEASE

19 January 2012



ST. JAMES'S PLACE WEALTH MANAGEMENT

2011 NEW BUSINESS



TOTAL NEW INVESTMENTS £5.2 BILLION UP 10%

WITH NET INFLOWS OF £3.3 BILLION ALSO UP 10%



St. James's Place plc ("SJP"), the wealth management group, today issues its new business update for the twelve months ended 31 December 2011.



Highlights for the twelve months are:



New Business



· Total single investments of £5.2 billion (2010: £4.75 billion), up 10%

· Total new business on an APE basis of £642.3 million (2010: £581.8 million), up 10%

· Pensions new business on an APE basis of £288.2 million (2010: £240.6 million), up 20%

· Our own business represents 91% of the total (2010: 91%)



Funds Under Management



· Net inflow of funds under management of £3.3 billion (2010: £3.0 billion)

· Continue to retain 95% of existing clients' funds

· Funds under management of £28.5 billion, up some 6% over the year



Partnership



· Partnership numbers up 6.3% to 1,649

· 80% of the Partnership have achieved Diploma level (the new regulatory qualification requirement) with a further 11% within one or two exams



David Bellamy, Chief Executive, commented:



"I am very pleased to report another record year for new business despite the difficult economic conditions that prevailed throughout the year and in particular the extreme volatility that characterised stock markets in the second half of the year.



St James's Place attracted £5.2 billion of new investments in 2011, while the strength of client relationships established by our Partners saw fund retention continue at 95%. As a result assets under management have grown to £28.5 billion.



We also have excellent momentum in other aspects of the business. The growth in Partner numbers, the addition of new investment funds and the progress made in achieving the new regulatory qualification levels all bode well for the future. Consequently, while mindful of the difficult economic conditions that persist, we have a good platform for further growth in new business in 2012."



-2-



The details of the announcement are attached.



Enquiries:



David Bellamy, Chief Executive


Tel:


020 7514 1963

Andrew Croft, Group Finance Director


Tel:


020 7514 1963

[darreni]

F458 said:

darreni thats interesting, did they approach you because they wanted you to join their sales team?

They approached us when we first set the company up 11 years ago & various times since, telling us how great it would be for us to sell their products etc.

We own our company 100% & are Independant, not tied or part of a network. For that reason SJP's high pressure crap was a non starter for us from the off. Most of the SJP advisers i've met would not have been out of place cold calling flogging double glazing.
Their system must work, as they are still going, but as I said, not for us.

Initially, they offer huge loans to the IFA who then joins them as a tied agent handing over a large slice of earnings.

IIRC, the model was based around future trail comission & SJP then buying back the clients/business from you later on. I would imagine that RDR has largley scuppered this.

[darreni]

F458 said:

This was the news at yesterdays "Jamboree" in London:



PRESS RELEASE

19 January 2012



ST. JAMES'S PLACE WEALTH MANAGEMENT

2011 NEW BUSINESS



TOTAL NEW INVESTMENTS £5.2 BILLION UP 10%

WITH NET INFLOWS OF £3.3 BILLION ALSO UP 10%



St. James's Place plc ("SJP"), the wealth management group, today issues its new business update for the twelve months ended 31 December 2011.



Highlights for the twelve months are:



New Business



· Total single investments of £5.2 billion (2010: £4.75 billion), up 10%

· Total new business on an APE basis of £642.3 million (2010: £581.8 million), up 10%

· Pensions new business on an APE basis of £288.2 million (2010: £240.6 million), up 20%

· Our own business represents 91% of the total (2010: 91%)



Funds Under Management



· Net inflow of funds under management of £3.3 billion (2010: £3.0 billion)

· Continue to retain 95% of existing clients' funds

· Funds under management of £28.5 billion, up some 6% over the year



Partnership



· Partnership numbers up 6.3% to 1,649

· 80% of the Partnership have achieved Diploma level (the new regulatory qualification requirement) with a further 11% within one or two exams



David Bellamy, Chief Executive, commented:



"I am very pleased to report another record year for new business despite the difficult economic conditions that prevailed throughout the year and in particular the extreme volatility that characterised stock markets in the second half of the year.



St James's Place attracted £5.2 billion of new investments in 2011, while the strength of client relationships established by our Partners saw fund retention continue at 95%. As a result assets under management have grown to £28.5 billion.



We also have excellent momentum in other aspects of the business. The growth in Partner numbers, the addition of new investment funds and the progress made in achieving the new regulatory qualification levels all bode well for the future. Consequently, while mindful of the difficult economic conditions that persist, we have a good platform for further growth in new business in 2012."



-2-



The details of the announcement are attached.



Enquiries:



David Bellamy, Chief Executive


Tel:


020 7514 1963

Andrew Croft, Group Finance Director


Tel:


020 7514 1963

I think you'd need to look a little deeper into the stats.
"Portfolio reconstruction" is a phrase I've heard used on a few occasions

[F458]

darreni said:

F458 said:

darreni thats interesting, did they approach you because they wanted you to join their sales team?

They approached us when we first set the company up 11 years ago & various times since, telling us how great it would be for us to sell their products etc.

We own our company 100% & are Independant, not tied or part of a network. For that reason SJP's high pressure crap was a non starter for us from the off. Most of the SJP advisers i've met would not have been out of place cold calling flogging double glazing.
Their system must work, as they are still going, but as I said, not for us.

Initially, they offer huge loans to the IFA who then joins them as a tied agent handing over a large slice of earnings.

IIRC, the model was based around future trail comission & SJP then buying back the clients/business from you later on. I would imagine that RDR has largley scuppered this.

Yes they offer IFA's big loans up front in order to get them on board, once they take the loan then the partner is in their pocket. They also seem to get all the business churned over to SJP from other providers in a short time scale!! Yes their big pull was always the sell out at the end! Well thats a load of rubbish basically, they promise 6 times renewals which is unheard of in the industry but then you look a bit deeper and you realise that they only pay partners 0.25% trail on pension business and 0.50% trail on bond business, so when you work that out it does not look so good and in fact is no better than a normal IFA getting 3 times renewals for his business, as his renewals will be bigger in the first place. Of course then the only person you can sell your SJP practice to is another SJP partner and guess who provides the funding for that... SJP of course, so in order for you to get out you have basically got to hope that SJP can stich up another of their partners with yet another loan!!! Madness!! As you say how RDR works with all this I don't know but I do know that SJP have a very cosy relationship with the FSA and they have probably changed the rules to suit themselves, whatever they are thesedays, tied agents, independent restricted, sales force... god knows!!

[F458]

The partners all have the correct qualifications, probably better qualified than most IFAs currently as it was said that 80% of the sales force is already up to level 4 diploma level. But so is a student who has just come out of uni and has never done any real world business!! Also SJP were getting rid of partners who were struggling with the exams as they are no use to them post RDR as unless they can write new business they are not worth much to SJP. Anyway if you click on the link below and go to Investment Review you will be able to see all the most up to date fund performance.

http://www.sjp.co.uk/portal/internet/library?_DARG...

Edited by F458 on Saturday 21st January 22:01

[1point7bar]

F458 said:

Investment Review you will be able to sell all the most up to date fund performance.

I can read your thoughts!

[F458]

Ha ha just read it again and edited it!!

[F458]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financetopics/p...

[1point7bar]

F458 said:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financetopics/p...

Keyword: Products

Edited by 1point7bar on Tuesday 24th January 14:46

[Atlantic]

apologies for the interruption - very interesting thread i must say. i have some of my pension with SJP and whilst I'm overall wuite happy with the performance of the funds i've chosen i'm always asking myself about the costs. giving 1-2% away to them every year is a great big bite out of the performance when compounded.

so could i simply keep a fund going and copy their model by funding additional investments into the externally available funds (- from memory they rate GAM amongst others quite highly). are these sort of products available to jo schmo in the street if i rock up figuratively speaking to invest a few thou?