Cold gearboxes and 2nd Gear

[crapper]

I was watching part 2 Harry Metcalfe Zonda video and he mentions about 2nd being very hard to use when the gearbox oil is cold and it got me thinking. On my Elise I had this issue and even on my Type-R, you can notice 2nd gear is a little tougher that the rest when cold. Does anyone know (and more importantly explain in a very simple way) why it's 2nd gear that is always the most tricky when cold?

Video link - http://youtu.be/_9RH4Fdprm4

[Dave Hedgehog]

i had a car that didnt like 1st when the box oil was cold, dont recal one that had as sticky second

[oj121]

Fords dont like reverse as a general rule!

[balders118]

Probably not related at all, but in my Puma I always nock it into second before 1st, or reverse when pulling away so it goes in smoother. Reverse in particular results in a large clunk.

[V88Dicky]

You wanna try a Monaro with a cold gearbox! (or any T56 for that matter)

Stubborn as a fking mule with the mental, needs double de-clutching usually, just to make progress. Ok when warm though.

[crapper]

So maybe I was not quite correct with the 2nd gear thing but always seems to affect one (or maybe two) gears but not everyone in the gearbox... Why would that be (I guess it may be related to the cog sizes but thats a complete shot in the dark)

[Regiment]

My Renault Sport Megane, it was third gear.

[davepoth]

If you look at the difference in ratio, the biggest jump is between first and second, which means that the synchros have more work to do on that shift.

[crapper]

davepoth said:

If you look at the difference in ratio, the biggest jump is between first and second, which means that the synchros have more work to do on that shift.

OK, that would make sence, but when 2nd gear is very tight, many jump straight from 1st to 3rd with no issues... aren't the difference in ratios even greater between 1st and 3rd?

[davepoth]

crapper said:

OK, that would make sence, but when 2nd gear is very tight, many jump straight from 1st to 3rd with no issues... aren't the difference in ratios even greater between 1st and 3rd?

There's a torque issue there as well, and 3rd will have less of a multiplier than second. Also the extra time it takes to manipulate the stick round to third will allow all the spinny bits of the gearbox to slow down.

Can you tell I'm guessing?

[crapper]

davepoth said:

There's a torque issue there as well, and 3rd will have less of a multiplier than second. Also the extra time it takes to manipulate the stick round to third will allow all the spinny bits of the gearbox to slow down.

Can you tell I'm guessing?

Ha ha, I'm all with your 'spinny bits' explanation, until I hear better

[philmots]

My old ST220 wouldn't go into reverse when cold. Was an issue when reversing off the drive!

Had to go in via 5th, always went straight in.

[robsco]

Slightly off topic but that 30-60mph run in the Zonda is just mind boggling.

[crapper]

robsco said:

Slightly off topic but that 30-60mph run in the Zonda is just mind boggling.

The torque was incredible, changing up through the gearbox from 1st to 6th without touch the throttle was amazing.. 20 mph in 6th at 300rpm and no stall, wow!

[james_gt3rs]

Probably previous owners doing fast changes during traffic light grand prix, has worn out the gearbox a bit. And first to second is probably the most common gear change.

[GroundEffect]

Yup. My Z4's box is the same cold.

[GreigM]

The box on my old ferrari is the same, until it gets warm its an absolute pig....double declutching and often going straight from 1st to 3rd is the only answer.

[denniswise9]

My Mx5s have both been a pig 1st to 2nd when cold.

[Jimmy No Hands]

GroundEffect said:

Yup. My Z4's box is the same cold.

Snap. Main issues with cold on the Zed for me is reverse and occasionally first. Doesn't like the cold!

[Boobonman]

All the Mk1 MX5's I've ever driven have had a notchy 1st-2nd when cold, used to block to third until the oil had warmed up.