Alpina vs sport model (e39)

[r4_rick]

I'm hanckering after a manual 3.0i BMW.

The e39 is looking like the favoured option.

Next dilema, is Alpina vs sport model.

Put simply the Alpina seems to command at least a £2k premium over the sport model, and i'm talking about the 6 cyliner variant not the V8 !, not brave enough for the later

Do the B10's come with an LSD and are they worth the extra money over the sport model, or given the age of these things now is it a question of buying the best condition one of either that i can find ? I'm thinking of having it as a daily driver but that isn't going to mean a lot of miles as my van takes the brunt of that.

Any views much appreciated

[kodos]

As it stands a e39 530i (manual) is a rare car even more so in sport.

An E39 Manual Alpina 3.3 is even rarer (especially if your after a post facelift in good condition)

Personally i reckon on the alpina being the better car and a manual b10 3.3 being worth the money. However actually finding one would be extremely hard. Finding an e39 530i sport thats worth being is a task as it is!

[r4_rick]

thanks kodos, yes they are rare, but at the moment there are more manual alpina's available than there are sports, of which i know of only one i'd consider.

have you had either ?

[BlitzE34]

530I sport is just a trim level to me. Its a 530i with an M-technik package. I'd rather have an Alpina, much rarer and special. B10 3.2 and 3.3 also have 540i front discs.

530i 231BHP vs Alpina 3.3 280BHP. B10's dont have an LSD.

Edited by BlitzE34 on Sunday 22 January 23:44

Edited by BlitzE34 on Sunday 22 January 23:50

[kodos]

BlitzE34 said:

530I sport is just a trim level to me. Its a 530i with an M-technik package. I'd rather have an Alpina, much rarer and special. B10 3.2 and 3.3 also have 540i front discs.

530i 231BHP vs Alpina 3.3 280BHP. B10's dont have an LSD.

Edited by BlitzE34 on Sunday 22 January 23:44

Edited by BlitzE34 on Sunday 22 January 23:50

I have a 530i sport (manual) there is a noticeable difference between the SE and the sport.

As per the alpinas unless there was a decent facelifted manual b10 3.3 i would go for a sport (the 6k you would spend on the alpina could get you a mint sport! With a lot less potential hassles)

However the alpina b10 3.3 is a wonderfull car. Just remember the 3.2 is a 260 bhp.

I would happily trade my 530i in for a mint alpina. However i am yet to find one that i would swap mine for. Untill then my 530i will always be the better option.

[fluffnik]

The B10 3.x will offer 540i levels of performance with 530i running costs.

ALPINA use progressive rate springs and twin-tube dampers - a B10 will ride and handle better than the base BMW.

Some will also have funky upholstery and trim...

I'm on my second ALPINA, I fully intend to have another.

[Fox-]

BlitzE34 said:

B10 3.2 and 3.3 also have 540i front discs.

So does the 530i.

I have a 530i Sport. The only thing thats better about it than an Alpina B10 3.3 is the little Sport asthetic extras - bodykit, headlining, etc. If looks are not at all an issue then the B10 3.3 is unquestionably the better car.

I didnt consider a B10 because they were all well over £20k when I bought mine, but if I was buying again now I'd probably go for a mint B10.

[The Stiglet]

r4_rick said:

i'm talking about the 6 cyliner variant not the V8 !, not brave enough for the later

Why not the V8? What's scary about it?

[Frances The Mute]

The Stiglet said:

Why not the V8? What's scary about it?

The cost of brakes on the V8S.

[Zwolf]

The Stiglet said:

Why not the V8? What's scary about it?

The consumable gearbox and the chocolate head gaskets.

The six cylinder cars handle and steer lighter on their toes than the V8s.

I'd pay the premium for a B10 3.3 as by the numbers, it has 540i performance with a six cylinder chassis. I prefer the aesthetics of ALPINA to a Sport too.

The only E39 ever fitted with an LSD was the M5. It's a difficult retro-fit as the half-shafts are a different size and if the car you're trying to fit it to is automatic, you need a different length propshaft too as the 540i/6 and 540iA props are different lengths - it will go onto a 540i/6 though, but still needs M5 half-shafts.

It'll end up costing as much as you'll pay for most E39s these days, so makes little sense, especially when usable M5s start around £6k.

That said, buy on condition so if you find a good 530i Sport, buy that instead of holding out for a similarly good B10, it could be a long wait and neither are plentiful.

[Max M4X WW]

Frances The Mute said:

The Stiglet said:

Why not the V8? What's scary about it?

The cost of brakes on the V8S.

Get a B10 V8 then, 540i Brakes

[The Stiglet]

Max M4X WW said:

Frances The Mute said:

The Stiglet said:

Why not the V8? What's scary about it?

The cost of brakes on the V8S.

Get a B10 V8 then, 540i Brakes

Or even a 540i Sport? If the Alpina B10 3.3 is close to the power output of the 4.4 V8, it won't have the same torque, which might be worth considering.

Zwolf said:

The consumable gearbox and the chocolate head gaskets.

The six cylinder cars handle and steer lighter on their toes than the V8s.

What's the problem with the gearbox? It's the same as the M5 and copes with the extra power without any problems.

Chocolate head gaskets? Is this connected to radiator and cooling issues, standard on E39's? I didn't realise the V8 had specific problems with regards to the head gaskets.

I haven't driven any of the straight six E39's, only the V8's so don't know how much lighter they'd feel on the nose but am curious. You often read that the straight sixes have the better steering due to the rack and pinion design but I do wonder how this would affect driving in the real world.

[Fox-]

The Stiglet said:

I haven't driven any of the straight six E39's, only the V8's so don't know how much lighter they'd feel on the nose but am curious. You often read that the straight sixes have the better steering due to the rack and pinion design but I do wonder how this would affect driving in the real world.

A friend of mine had both a 530i and an M5 and used to comment that the steering on the 530i was nicer.

I gather he used to forget all about how much nicer the 530i steering was as soon as he stood on the loud pedal, though.

[Zwolf]

The Stiglet said:

Zwolf said:

The consumable gearbox and the chocolate head gaskets.

The six cylinder cars handle and steer lighter on their toes than the V8s.

What's the problem with the gearbox? It's the same as the M5 and copes with the extra power without any problems.

Eh? M5 = 6 speed manual with LSD, B10 V8 = 5 speed Switchtronic auto with standard open diff. Not the same at all.

B10 V8 uses the 540i box with reprogrammed shift software. The same box that is problematic in seemingly all M62 engined variants at higher mileages.

The Stiglet said:

Chocolate head gaskets? Is this connected to radiator and cooling issues, standard on E39's? I didn't realise the V8 had specific problems with regards to the head gaskets.

The ALPINA versions (prior to a particular engine number that I can never remember, but many here will know, 14500 rings a bell) of the M62 V8 use ALPINA specific gaskets that are prone to failure. Being ALPINA parts, they carry ALPINA tax.

That's in addition to the default cooling system problems of just about every BMW ever built. One day they'll build a car with one that isn't considered a wear and tear item.

The Stiglet said:

I haven't driven any of the straight six E39's, only the V8's so don't know how much lighter they'd feel on the nose but am curious. You often read that the straight sixes have the better steering due to the rack and pinion design but I do wonder how this would affect driving in the real world.

Try a few six cyl petrols, doesn't even need to be a particularly powerful one to feel the difference. I've run multiple examples of each petrol six, gone to buy the occasional V8, but the weightier nose always sees me back in a 530i instead.

The M5 suffers too, but it's tolerable for the big jump in performance between it and the 530i. I find I can place the front of a six-pot petrol more confidently when pressing on than a V8, that tends to be more of a slower-in and faster out approach.

You can feel a similar distinction between 728is and the rest of the range. The weight of the V8s and V12 especially changes the front end feel quite noticeably, particularly when "making progress".

Of course if it's just being bought for high speed m-way cruising and distance driving, then it makes next to no odds at all.

[The Stiglet]

Zwolf said:

The Stiglet said:

Zwolf said:

The consumable gearbox and the chocolate head gaskets.

The six cylinder cars handle and steer lighter on their toes than the V8s.

What's the problem with the gearbox? It's the same as the M5 and copes with the extra power without any problems.

Eh? M5 = 6 speed manual with LSD, B10 V8 = 5 speed Switchtronic auto with standard open diff. Not the same at all.

B10 V8 uses the 540i box with reprogrammed shift software. The same box that is problematic in seemingly all M62 engined variants at higher mileages.

The Stiglet said:

Chocolate head gaskets? Is this connected to radiator and cooling issues, standard on E39's? I didn't realise the V8 had specific problems with regards to the head gaskets.

The ALPINA versions (prior to a particular engine number that I can never remember, but many here will know, 14500 rings a bell) of the M62 V8 use ALPINA specific gaskets that are prone to failure. Being ALPINA parts, they carry ALPINA tax.

That's in addition to the default cooling system problems of just about every BMW ever built. One day they'll build a car with one that isn't considered a wear and tear item.

The Stiglet said:

I haven't driven any of the straight six E39's, only the V8's so don't know how much lighter they'd feel on the nose but am curious. You often read that the straight sixes have the better steering due to the rack and pinion design but I do wonder how this would affect driving in the real world.

Try a few six cyl petrols, doesn't even need to be a particularly powerful one to feel the difference. I've run multiple examples of each petrol six, gone to buy the occasional V8, but the weightier nose always sees me back in a 530i instead.

The M5 suffers too, but it's tolerable for the big jump in performance between it and the 530i. I find I can place the front of a six-pot petrol more confidently when pressing on than a V8, that tends to be more of a slower-in and faster out approach.

You can feel a similar distinction between 728is and the rest of the range. The weight of the V8s and V12 especially changes the front end feel quite noticeably, particularly when "making progress".

Of course if it's just being bought for high speed m-way cruising and distance driving, then it makes next to no odds at all.

Sorry, I was referring to the E39 540i Sport, not the Alpina with regards to the gearbox, gaskets etc in your posts. The E39 540i uses the same manual gearbox, without the LSD, as the M5. But yes, the autobox does seem to suffer from what you describe.

Nice to read about the differences with the other models and I know what you mean about pushing on in the 540, you do feel the weight and it does feel a little awkward in certain corners, at certain speeds. I'm mostly interested in m-way cruising and distance driving so I'm not often made to feel uncomfortable on B roads but the sport suspension is robust when pushed and it will 'hold' a line if you trust it.

[Max M4X WW]

The Stiglet said:

it will 'hold' a line if you trust it

This is what I tell my other half when she drives the car, I probably tell myself the same thing as well

[r4_rick]

Well i got to test drive a pre face lift, manual B10 3.2 today !

Car is in nice condition, but it was raining and the rear tyres were well worn so no chance to push it and noe would i on a test drive.

Lovely sound though !

So they key question is, do i really want a car that runs on super unleaded and at best is going to to 18 round town and 28 on a run ?

We are only on this planet once though

Oh it would need a rear set of Michelin's too +£500 ??

I need some male logic supporting comments to give me a gentle push and some thoughts on future value/desirability, I'm under no illusions it could be a hard sell in 12 month's when i've got bored of it and want a cheap to run diesel hatchback

[r4_rick]

Well i got to test drive a pre face lift, manual B10 3.2 today !

Car is in nice condition, but it was raining and the rear tyres were well worn so no chance to push it and noe would i on a test drive.

Lovely sound though !

So they key question is, do i really want a car that runs on super unleaded and at best is going to to 18 round town and 28 on a run ?

We are only on this planet once though

Oh it would need a rear set of Michelin's too +£500 ??

I need some male logic supporting comments to give me a gentle push and some thoughts on future value/desirability, I'm under no illusions it could be a hard sell in 12 month's when i've got bored of it and want a cheap to run diesel hatchback

[fluffnik]

r4_rick said:

Oh it would need a rear set of Michelin's too +£500 ??

My last pair were only £420 fitted, £375 for the fronts.

They're pretty light on front tyres ~40k+ though the V8 gets through a pair of rears every 18-20k or so of fast A and B road driving with the occasional Alpine blast...

r4_rick said:

I need some male logic supporting comments to give me a gentle push and some thoughts on future value/desirability, I'm under no illusions it could be a hard sell in 12 month's when i've got bored of it and want a cheap to run diesel hatchback

I think a manual 3.2 should manage better than 18mpg round town, my V8 manages 17+

Depreciation is not a huge issue if you have patience - the market is small so you may wait for a buyer.

Does "your" car have an ALPINA (or special) interior? I'd be inclined to wait for a 3.3 if it doesn't...

We need pics!!!

[r4_rick]

the interior is nothing special, just grey leather, given i want a 6 cylinder manual, the wait for one with a special interior could be a very long one.

Encouraging news on the tyre life though, i was betting on only 12-12k for the rears and I'm no hooligan, well sometimes maybe !

as for pics, if i buy it i'll post them