Slowing down in snow. Engine Braking or Neutral?

[Hark]

Came up through some conversation I was having with someone who lives in Canada.

She said that the correct way to slow down when driving in snow was to flick it in to neutral.
I was always taught to use VERY light engine braking (no sudden shift of weight) and gently, gently on the brake pedal if needed.

I thought perhaps she had been driving an automatic?

Or am I missing a trick?

[TheHeretic]

Engine braking... Not sure what benefit neutral would have.

[Gruber]

My old Merc w124 is the only rwd auto I've driven in snow and the best way to keep control when braking was to knock the box into neutral. Otherwise, the back wheels were pushing the car on and the fronts are locking up.

But I wouldn't recommend it in a manual.

[redtwin]

Engine braking could cause drive wheels to lock up. Better to apply equal retardation to all wheels rather than just 2...unless you are in a 4X4 of course.

[Yazza54]

What good would neutral do

[TheHeretic]

redtwin said:

Engine braking could cause drive wheels to lock up. Better to apply equal retardation to all wheels rather than just 2...unless you are in a 4X4 of course.

Why would the drive wheels lock up?

[redtwin]

Yazza54 said:

What good would neutral do

Remove engine braking to the drive wheels so you don't get one axle trying to slow down more than the other.

[Gruber]

Yazza54 said:

What good would neutral do

As above, it stops the engine driving the driven wheels forwards.

[Hark]

redtwin said:

Engine braking could cause drive wheels to lock up. Better to apply equal retardation to all wheels rather than just 2...unless you are in a 4X4 of course.

Surely it'll only lock up if you engine brake too quickly? No different than stamping on the brakes.

I reckon it must be an auto only Canada thing.

I only asked, as they obviously have ALOT more snow than we do, so stands to reasons they would have more experience.

[redtwin]

TheHeretic said:

Why would the drive wheels lock up?

Because of engine braking.

[DanielC4GP]

redtwin said:

Engine braking could cause drive wheels to lock up. Better to apply equal retardation to all wheels rather than just 2...unless you are in a 4X4 of course.

When you brake nearly all the braking force is applied to the front wheels. The back brakes are only used when the pedal is pressed significantly hard under hard braking. So when your only slightly pressing the brake pedal in snowy conditions chances are the brakes are only being applied to the front wheels anyway.

As someone has already said it would be the best thing to do when driving a rear wheel drive automatic as the drive wheels will try and push the front wheels when on tickover.

Edited by DanielC4GP on Tuesday 24th January 23:07

[Gruber]

Hark said:

Surely it'll only lock up if you engine brake too quickly? No different than stamping on the brakes.

I reckon it must be an auto only Canada thing.

I only asked, as they obviously have ALOT more snow than we do, so stands to reasons they would have more experience.

No. It's nothing to do with engine braking. It's the opposite. Knocking it into neutral reduces the propensity to lock up the non-driven wheels.

[redtwin]

Reading back I didn't chose my words correctly. By "lock up" I meant lose traction or skid, not literally stop spinning. Apologies for any confusion.

[TheHeretic]

redtwin said:

Because of engine braking.

Sorry, in all the years I've been engine braking, I've never seen the wheels lock up.

[Yazza54]

Gruber said:

As above, it stops the engine driving the driven wheels forwards.

Well yes but I'd rather adopt engine braking that just freewheel.

Freewheeling always feels the least in control.

[Gruber]

Yazza54 said:

Gruber said:

As above, it stops the engine driving the driven wheels forwards.

Well yes but I'd rather adopt engine braking that just freewheel.

Freewheeling always feels the least in control.

You're not free-wheeling. You're braking.

[Yazza54]

Gruber said:

Yazza54 said:

Gruber said:

As above, it stops the engine driving the driven wheels forwards.

Well yes but I'd rather adopt engine braking that just freewheel.

Freewheeling always feels the least in control.

You're not free-wheeling. You're braking.

How is putting it in neutral and not touching the brake pedal classed as braking?

Just deceleration due to friction and drag...

[BonzoG]

Gruber said:

Otherwise, the back wheels were pushing the car on and the fronts are locking up.

This. If it's really slippy, very very light braking could be enough to lock the front wheels, but at the same time not enough to overcome the autobox creep effect against the rear wheels. Same could even happen in a manual if you get so caught up in trying to brake without locking the fronts, that you forget to declutch.

Further compounded if you have better traction at the back as well - e.g. rear engined and plenty of weight over the rear, or better tyres/snow chains/socks on the drive wheels only. Recipe for disaster.


Don't see the point in selecting neutral with any other drive though? FWD and braking will overcome engine, 4WD and engine braking across all 4 wheels could be helpful.

[Gruber]

Yazza54 said:

Gruber said:

Yazza54 said:

Gruber said:

As above, it stops the engine driving the driven wheels forwards.

Well yes but I'd rather adopt engine braking that just freewheel.

Freewheeling always feels the least in control.

You're not free-wheeling. You're braking.

How is putting it in neutral and not touching the brake pedal classed as braking?

Just deceleration due to friction and drag...

What???

Of course you're touching the brake pedal. Hence "braking".

[TheHeretic]

redtwin said:

Reading back I didn't chose my words correctly. By "lock up" I meant lose traction or skid, not literally stop spinning. Apologies for any confusion.

But, to my mind, you are more likely to lose traction, and skid, by having a free wheeling hub, and applying a braking force limited only by the grip you have on the surface.