RE: Parking fines 'predatory and dishonest' says judge
Friday 27th January 2012
A traffic warden who took his employers to court over losing his job has brought to light the use of illegal quotas for parking fines.
The judge also pointed to an e-mail from a regional manager at NSL, which said: "There are still significant numbers of people issuing at a rate of below 9 per hour... we should not feel uncomfortable to use the disciplinary process."
Parking fines 'predatory and dishonest' says judge
Don't blame the wardens - it's the companies that cause the problem... at least in Kensington
NSL, a company responsible for handing out parking fines in Kensington and Chelsea, has been found to have been setting quotas for the number of parking tickets its wardens issued.
In a judgement published by the London Central Employment Tribunal, Judge Burns found that warden Hakim Berkani had indeed been unfairly dismissed.
"The claimant took the view that the priority should be given to warning motorists about infringements rather than issuing PCNs [fines]." said the judge (quite right, we say). "The managers however took the view that a minimum number of PCNs should be issued, and ten per shift was frequently mentioned as an absolute minimum.
"We accept the claimant's evidence that the managers clearly wanted more rather than less PCNs to be issued."
NSL denies setting quotas and is now 'considering its options'.
We say it proves that traffic wardens are human after all, but that the companies they work for might not be so nice...
Discussion
This is another one of those private-industry-working-for-the-public things I don't understand. How is it cheaper to hire a company to set fines, then hire some people to collect them, then pay _some_ of those fines back to the council... why not just hire the parking wardens direct? Surely this is just a way to insert pointless, greedy, middlemen into what should otherwise be a not-for-profit public service. Isn't the point of parking fines supposed to be to keep the turnover of traffic moving rather than entrapping people for the purposes of making money?
The worst of these companies are the companies that operate on private properties like UKPC etc, giving out extortionate fines which are completely unenforceable then trying to bully people into paying them.
Safe to say the last fine I got from these people never got paid despite numerous letters from various 'debt collectors'........
Safe to say the last fine I got from these people never got paid despite numerous letters from various 'debt collectors'........
Benrad said:
Can I lead three cheers for Hakim Berkani, seems a great person, fighting injustice and trying to do what they see as morally right.
We need more people like that, parking wardens or not
Yes, I'm sure he missed his quota because of his decent and principled stance on parking enforcement policy, and not by being a lazy git.We need more people like that, parking wardens or not
Edited by otolith on Friday 27th January 12:49
Dosen't surprise me at all. I had a friend who started working as a traffic warden (He liked the idea of riding scooter at work)
On his first day, he was told there were no targets.. but by the end of the week, it was made very clear to him how many tickets he was expected to give each day.
We're not really friends anymore
On his first day, he was told there were no targets.. but by the end of the week, it was made very clear to him how many tickets he was expected to give each day.
We're not really friends anymore
Not just traffic wardens but if any company pay their staff on sales/incentives/commission only, obviously the staff will do what they can to earn a salary.
So are the local councils the guilty party for handing the parking regs and the handing out of tickets and fines to a third party company who are out to make MONEY!!!
Would be interesting to see how much the company mentioned pay the local council for the right to hand out the fines and how much they earn in fines per year, btu as mentioned they are a business and they want to earn money.
So are the local councils the guilty party for handing the parking regs and the handing out of tickets and fines to a third party company who are out to make MONEY!!!
Would be interesting to see how much the company mentioned pay the local council for the right to hand out the fines and how much they earn in fines per year, btu as mentioned they are a business and they want to earn money.
Yup - I have had some experience of these private organisations and many are borderline corrupt. This for example:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2076553/Co...
If enough people simply refused to pay whever the fine looks slightly controversial, these vile businesses would fold as it would be administratively impossible to prosecute everyone. Of course, leaving your car somewhere crazy needs to be prevented, but it shouldn't be the big business it has become.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2076553/Co...
If enough people simply refused to pay whever the fine looks slightly controversial, these vile businesses would fold as it would be administratively impossible to prosecute everyone. Of course, leaving your car somewhere crazy needs to be prevented, but it shouldn't be the big business it has become.
The irony is that we cannot seem to regulate something as apparently simple as parking in a consistent fashion.
You either live somewhere which is fed upon by predatory companies (whether that's the local authority or a private company) or you live somewhere where people park anywhere they like without any danger of reproach...
I believe the problem is that the Police seem to have decided that parking is simply not their problem and they won't waste their time with it - but often there is no-one else and thus private companies/local authorities get involved and we swing from 1 extreme to the other.
The solution, IMO, is to hand-over responsibility for all driving related 'policing' (ANPR, speeding, roadside safety checking,parking regulation etc.) to a national agency (incorporating things like the DVLA/VOSA etc.) which would
a - free-up the Police to do the more important things
b - ensure a countrywide consistent approach is taken to things like driving whilst using your phone, parking like an idiot etc. etc.
c - bring together driver and vehicle registration, testing and enforcement under one roof.
The only complaint I can see from Police is that they use petty driving infringements as an excuse to get a few free 'wins' (drug possession, stolen goods etc.) but they cherry pick what they do and the result is a s
tty job gets done IMO
You either live somewhere which is fed upon by predatory companies (whether that's the local authority or a private company) or you live somewhere where people park anywhere they like without any danger of reproach...
I believe the problem is that the Police seem to have decided that parking is simply not their problem and they won't waste their time with it - but often there is no-one else and thus private companies/local authorities get involved and we swing from 1 extreme to the other.
The solution, IMO, is to hand-over responsibility for all driving related 'policing' (ANPR, speeding, roadside safety checking,parking regulation etc.) to a national agency (incorporating things like the DVLA/VOSA etc.) which would
a - free-up the Police to do the more important things
b - ensure a countrywide consistent approach is taken to things like driving whilst using your phone, parking like an idiot etc. etc.
c - bring together driver and vehicle registration, testing and enforcement under one roof.
The only complaint I can see from Police is that they use petty driving infringements as an excuse to get a few free 'wins' (drug possession, stolen goods etc.) but they cherry pick what they do and the result is a s
tty job gets done IMOjohnpeat said:
The irony is that we cannot seem to regulate something as apparently simple as parking in a consistent fashion.
You either live somewhere which is fed upon by predatory companies (whether that's the local authority or a private company) or you live somewhere where people park anywhere they like without any danger of reproach...
I believe the problem is that the Police seem to have decided that parking is simply not their problem and they won't waste their time with it - but often there is no-one else and thus private companies/local authorities get involved and we swing from 1 extreme to the other.
The solution, IMO, is to hand-over responsibility for all driving related 'policing' (ANPR, speeding, roadside safety checking,parking regulation etc.) to a national agency (incorporating things like the DVLA/VOSA etc.) which would
a - free-up the Police to do the more important things
b - ensure a countrywide consistent approach is taken to things like driving whilst using your phone, parking like an idiot etc. etc.
c - bring together driver and vehicle registration, testing and enforcement under one roof.
The only complaint I can see from Police is that they use petty driving infringements as an excuse to get a few free 'wins' (drug possession, stolen goods etc.) but they cherry pick what they do and the result is a stty job gets done IMO
Brilliant ideaYou either live somewhere which is fed upon by predatory companies (whether that's the local authority or a private company) or you live somewhere where people park anywhere they like without any danger of reproach...
I believe the problem is that the Police seem to have decided that parking is simply not their problem and they won't waste their time with it - but often there is no-one else and thus private companies/local authorities get involved and we swing from 1 extreme to the other.
The solution, IMO, is to hand-over responsibility for all driving related 'policing' (ANPR, speeding, roadside safety checking,parking regulation etc.) to a national agency (incorporating things like the DVLA/VOSA etc.) which would
a - free-up the Police to do the more important things
b - ensure a countrywide consistent approach is taken to things like driving whilst using your phone, parking like an idiot etc. etc.
c - bring together driver and vehicle registration, testing and enforcement under one roof.
The only complaint I can see from Police is that they use petty driving infringements as an excuse to get a few free 'wins' (drug possession, stolen goods etc.) but they cherry pick what they do and the result is a s
tty job gets done IMOjohnpeat said:
The irony is that we cannot seem to regulate something as apparently simple as parking in a consistent fashion.
You either live somewhere which is fed upon by predatory companies (whether that's the local authority or a private company) or you live somewhere where people park anywhere they like without any danger of reproach...
I believe the problem is that the Police seem to have decided that parking is simply not their problem and they won't waste their time with it - but often there is no-one else and thus private companies/local authorities get involved and we swing from 1 extreme to the other.
The solution, IMO, is to hand-over responsibility for all driving related 'policing' (ANPR, speeding, roadside safety checking,parking regulation etc.) to a national agency (incorporating things like the DVLA/VOSA etc.) which would
a - free-up the Police to do the more important things
b - ensure a countrywide consistent approach is taken to things like driving whilst using your phone, parking like an idiot etc. etc.
c - bring together driver and vehicle registration, testing and enforcement under one roof.
The only complaint I can see from Police is that they use petty driving infringements as an excuse to get a few free 'wins' (drug possession, stolen goods etc.) but they cherry pick what they do and the result is a stty job gets done IMO
They do that here in Brazil.... you get the CET who theoretically enforce traffic laws and the police... Both are allowed to issue tickets, but only police have the power to pull over a vehicle.You either live somewhere which is fed upon by predatory companies (whether that's the local authority or a private company) or you live somewhere where people park anywhere they like without any danger of reproach...
I believe the problem is that the Police seem to have decided that parking is simply not their problem and they won't waste their time with it - but often there is no-one else and thus private companies/local authorities get involved and we swing from 1 extreme to the other.
The solution, IMO, is to hand-over responsibility for all driving related 'policing' (ANPR, speeding, roadside safety checking,parking regulation etc.) to a national agency (incorporating things like the DVLA/VOSA etc.) which would
a - free-up the Police to do the more important things
b - ensure a countrywide consistent approach is taken to things like driving whilst using your phone, parking like an idiot etc. etc.
c - bring together driver and vehicle registration, testing and enforcement under one roof.
The only complaint I can see from Police is that they use petty driving infringements as an excuse to get a few free 'wins' (drug possession, stolen goods etc.) but they cherry pick what they do and the result is a s
tty job gets done IMOYou can speed past them, run through red lights and do pretty much anything bar running over someone or hitting something, and neither of them do anything.
Police see traffic enforcing as CET's problem / responsibility and CET see traffic enforcement as the Police's responsibility.
Result: driving here (Sao Paulo) is a royal pain in the ar*e.
As I recall from a couple of months ago, traffic enforcement was fine in the UK.
But yeah, with regards to the original article, down with these money grabbing fu**ers!!
= )
johnpeat said:
The irony is that we cannot seem to regulate something as apparently simple as parking in a consistent fashion.
You either live somewhere which is fed upon by predatory companies (whether that's the local authority or a private company) or you live somewhere where people park anywhere they like without any danger of reproach...
I believe the problem is that the Police seem to have decided that parking is simply not their problem and they won't waste their time with it - but often there is no-one else and thus private companies/local authorities get involved and we swing from 1 extreme to the other.
The solution, IMO, is to hand-over responsibility for all driving related 'policing' (ANPR, speeding, roadside safety checking,parking regulation etc.) to a national agency (incorporating things like the DVLA/VOSA etc.) which would
a - free-up the Police to do the more important things
b - ensure a countrywide consistent approach is taken to things like driving whilst using your phone, parking like an idiot etc. etc.
c - bring together driver and vehicle registration, testing and enforcement under one roof.
The only complaint I can see from Police is that they use petty driving infringements as an excuse to get a few free 'wins' (drug possession, stolen goods etc.) but they cherry pick what they do and the result is a stty job gets done IMO
The last thing we need is another quango to further undermine the authority of the Police. Surely they are the "National Agency" that should be enforcing driving related law? Parking enforcement could be handled primarily by bobbies on the beat (remember them) and as part of the "dealing with public" training for new police.You either live somewhere which is fed upon by predatory companies (whether that's the local authority or a private company) or you live somewhere where people park anywhere they like without any danger of reproach...
I believe the problem is that the Police seem to have decided that parking is simply not their problem and they won't waste their time with it - but often there is no-one else and thus private companies/local authorities get involved and we swing from 1 extreme to the other.
The solution, IMO, is to hand-over responsibility for all driving related 'policing' (ANPR, speeding, roadside safety checking,parking regulation etc.) to a national agency (incorporating things like the DVLA/VOSA etc.) which would
a - free-up the Police to do the more important things
b - ensure a countrywide consistent approach is taken to things like driving whilst using your phone, parking like an idiot etc. etc.
c - bring together driver and vehicle registration, testing and enforcement under one roof.
The only complaint I can see from Police is that they use petty driving infringements as an excuse to get a few free 'wins' (drug possession, stolen goods etc.) but they cherry pick what they do and the result is a s
tty job gets done IMOstory said:
The judge also pointed to an e-mail from a regional manager at NSL, which said: "There are still significant numbers of people issuing at a rate of below 9 per hour... we should not feel uncomfortable to use the disciplinary process."
NSL denies setting quotas and is now 'considering its options'.
In that case I can say, without fear of recrimination, that NSL is a bunch of lying scumbags.NSL denies setting quotas and is now 'considering its options'.
Which is nice...
.
K&C must be a tricky one to make much revenue in because the parking permit for residents isn't zoned, you can park where you like in Residents bays across the borough - it's more valuable than gold and people go to silly lenghts to get one - but before I got mine I got the odd ticket but usually cos I overslept and didn't move the car - so I could hardly complain.
What annoyed me was that they would always clamp it - brilliant idea as it meant I had to pay a release fee as well as the dash ticket. That drove me bonkers!!!! If it hadn't been for that I would have said fair cop - but that was just taking the ...
What annoyed me was that they would always clamp it - brilliant idea as it meant I had to pay a release fee as well as the dash ticket. That drove me bonkers!!!! If it hadn't been for that I would have said fair cop - but that was just taking the ...
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