991 C2S - As quick as a 3.8 GT3

[Carl_Docklands]

In pure raw speed terms it looks like the German mags have proven the claim that the 991 is in the same ball-park as a 3.8 GT3. Roll on the British tests.

Sport Auto.

GT3 RS 4.0 - 1min 09sec
GT3 3.8 - 1min 10sec
F430 Scuderia - 1min 10sec
911 C2S - 1min 10sec
911 Turbo S - 1min 10sec
Cayman R - 1min 12sec

Auto-Bild.

GT3 RS 4.0 - 1min 33sec
Aventador - 1min 34sec
GT3 3.8 - 1min 36sec
911 C2S - 1min 36sec
Cayman R - 1min 38sec

Autozeitung

GT3 3.8 - 1min 35sec
911 C2S - 1min 36sec

[Callughan]

what's this time for?

[F3RNANDO]

Time waited at drive through McDonalds!

Interesting ...............but not the dynamic benchmark usually used.

[Mermaid]

Callughan said:

what's this time for?

Hockenheim?

[Gibbo205]

There is no denying the 991 is bloody quick and faster than the 997. But I don't care because if the reviews are right then I'd have a far more engaging and thrilling drive in the 997.

At the end of the day if all that mattered to us all was how fast a car goes round a track, well I'd just buy a GTR but because I love driver involvement it's why I have a 911 and the 997 dishes up great involvement, if the 991 is more like a GTR then it looses it's appeal to me, though of course as I've not driven a 991 I am just going off what I've read and the feelings I've heard from those who have driven one.

[MrCooke]

Gibbo205 said:

There is no denying the 991 is bloody quick and faster than the 997. But I don't care because if the reviews are right then I'd have a far more engaging and thrilling drive in the 997.

And the 996 moreso and the 993 moreso than that and the 964 moreso than that. By your logic what you need is a 1964 - 68 car. They're more involving and less fast than every 911 that followed on.

[Mermaid]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Cars have got bigger & better, roads are the same size & more congested, more cameras & controls than ever before. Really, we should have less power, lighter & smaller cars.

[mollytherocker]

The 'progress' dilemma, Porsche (And others) face is simple. The 'new car' HAS to be faster, better, bigger, more luxurious, more toyed up, etc than the current car.

Imagine the headline - PORSCHE SHOCK: NEW 911 IS SLOWER THAN THE OLD ONE!!!!

They have no choice in the matter. But we do.

We have a plethora of differing 911's to choose from 1963 to date, with different characters and focus points. We will never all agree on the 'best' as we all want different things from our 911. Even the 2WD vs 4WD & tip vs manual of a single model gets people heated up!

For most people, the newest is the best and that goes for everthing in life. Look at phones; 'Oh, is that the iphone 4, I just got the 5, its 1 betterer.'

So a 911 will eventually have a billion BHP, do 100mpg and do it all for you, whilst making you a sandwich and pulling you off.

And it will be the best 911 ever. Won't it?

MTR

[mollytherocker]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I absolutely agree with you, but its about selling new cars, and to most buyers, the new one has to faster.

Does anyone want a shorter willy?

A few years ago, Ferrari said publicly that it was stopping chasing top speed, just before the Veyron was launched. This is a risky tactic but ultimately it cant go on. I have no doubt that a 300mph car is possible, but where do you drive it?

MTR

[Robbo66]

Mermaid said:

Cars have got bigger & better, roads are the same size & more congested, more cameras & controls than ever before. Really, we should have less power, lighter & smaller cars.

Exactly, my little 2.7 would fit int the glove box of a GT3, but the nimbleness and tactile natural of the car is unsurpassed IMO. I would seriously consider a cayman R before the GT3', purely because it's light and smaller than the GT3.

[betternotbigger]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I love this comment. As the demographic of most brand-new 911 buyers at my local OPC (Leeds) is that of a 50 year old self-made company director on a decent though hard-earned and restrained wage (this is Yorkshire remember), for whom the 991 will be his/her 4th or 5th 911, your observation couldn't be more spectacularly wrong.

I'm sure observations will be different elsewhere because I met some southerners on holiday last week and they did seem to be unnecessarily well paid. They didn't seem very happy though - but that's a question for a different forum...

[Gibbo205]

MrCooke said:

And the 996 moreso and the 993 moreso than that and the 964 moreso than that. By your logic what you need is a 1964 - 68 car. They're more involving and less fast than every 911 that followed on.

True true, but I think I'd skip the 996, I've driven a 996 GT3 and a 996 C4S and I did not like either, a bit hard to explain for I felt the 997 gave me the same feedback/thrill I was seeking but at the same time felt a lot more solidly put together, nicer place to be and well faster too.

However a 993, mmmmm I've never driven one but I think I'd definetely love one of those, but more as a weekend car.

[Dr S]

betternotbigger said:

...they did seem to be unnecessarily well paid...

Interesting attitude... I guess you deem yourself to be the only person worth their pay...

On a different note:

To me it is two boxes that need to be ticked at the same time. I love my 3 exactly for the reason that is properly fast around track AND offers lots of involvement. Pure track speed without involvement is fine for a race car as my main goal is to win. Pure invovlement without proper performance is fine for a hot hatch or similar.

IF Porsche do 991 GT3 variant (which appears not to be a given) then I expect it to be faster than the stock Carreras around track but also to offer involvement at any given speed. A 3 excites because it provides proper race car feeling from the moment you turn the key.

[m3evo321]

Newer cars have to be faster than the outgoing model- that is what the market demands. Us guys in the second hand market have to balance our budget with driver appeal and also the toys/luxury we are after.
I also have a Mazda import MX5 (Eunos Roadster) it has only 115 bhp but in terms of driving enjoyment it is virtually unbeatable : and it costs £1500. But a completely different driving experience to my 996.
Horses & courses .

[franki68]

Gibbo205 said:

There is no denying the 991 is bloody quick and faster than the 997. But I don't care because if the reviews are right then I'd have a far more engaging and thrilling drive in the 997.

At the end of the day if all that mattered to us all was how fast a car goes round a track, well I'd just buy a GTR but because I love driver involvement it's why I have a 911 and the 997 dishes up great involvement, if the 991 is more like a GTR then it looses it's appeal to me, though of course as I've not driven a 991 I am just going off what I've read and the feelings I've heard from those who have driven one.

I didn't find it less involving than a 997,plus the nissan gtr is very involving,it's a myth that it is not involving to drive.
Read all the latest tests .,or better still drive them and form your own opinion.

[betternotbigger]

Dr S said:

betternotbigger said:

...they did seem to be unnecessarily well paid...

Interesting attitude... I guess you deem yourself to be the only person worth their pay...

I didn't phrase that accurately. What I was trying to encompass in a pithy phrase was that how much they earned, and the desire for ostentation thereof, seemed to have completely overtaken their lives, and not in a good way. By "unnecessarily", I meant that the excesses of their ostentation reflected a superfluity of spare cash and an "earnings arms race" which could have been put to better use, and which in several cases had been their downfall: At the start of the holiday I chastened myself with the thought that it was their cash to waste, but, over the course of the week, I learned that half of the group had gone bankrupt in the past year. So it would appear it wan't their money after all...

As to my own value, I most certainly am paid less than I am worth. And that is by design: I own a reasonable-sized business and only pay myself a tenth of profits. The rest is for reinvestment or a rainy day. I don't need any more cash, cars or chocolate fountains.

[Robbo66]

betternotbigger said:

I didn't phrase that accurately. What I was trying to encompass in a pithy phrase was that how much they earned, and the desire for ostentation thereof, seemed to have completely overtaken their lives, and not in a good way. By "unnecessarily", I meant that the excesses of their ostentation reflected a superfluity of spare cash and an "earnings arms race" which could have been put to better use, and which in several cases had been their downfall: At the start of the holiday I chastended myself with the thought that it was their cash to waste, but, over the course of the week, I learned that half of the group had gone bankrupt in the past year. So it would appear it wan't their money after all...

As to my own value, I most certainly am paid less than I am worth. And that is by design: I own a reasonable-sized business and only pay myself a tenth of profits. The rest is for reinvestment or a rainy day. I don't need any more cash, cars or chocolate fountains.

Good for you. You are obviously very proud.... of yourself.

[Mermaid]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Now that's a thought - a special Mezger type lump in a Cayman R.

[betternotbigger]

Robbo66 said:

Good for you. You are obviously very proud.... of yourself.

No, I'm proud to be British but depressed at what our country has become.

[Carl_Docklands]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I would say the quest for thrills splits this forum into many parts, people that really get excited by this stuff, people who are more interested in the "feel" than the speed, people who don't give a rats arse, people who want one as they want to show off and the track junkies who seem to sit in all camps depending on their mood :>

I am somewhere between the first two, I really want to like the new 911 but I could not use the performance so, I prefer to sit in the stands and marvel at the engineering.

This really is a new benchmark for the 911, heaven knows how fast the Turbo S is going to go. You will probably need a G-force suit to launch control it.