08 focus tdci knock/rattle non start

[jacksonvr6]

My focus 1.8 tdci has intermittent starting problem the only way I can describe it is the engine seems to "half" start it just judders knocks and rattles with no response from throttle pedal it'll do this for about 5 times of trying then it'll start fine and be no problem it has done it a few times only in the mornings and doesn't seem to make a difference on temperature, I also sounds like it would if you start a diesel with easy start?
Had no warning lights on the dash either
Any ideas/heard of this before?

It hasn't been started since sunday morning and yesterday started fine! Just plugged it in and no faults found!
this morning tho was was the same knocking sound
thinking it could be the dual mass fly wheel?

[Classic Grad 98]

Hmm... Is the starter motor ring gear on the flywheel in these engines?

[Pumaracing]

jacksonvr6 said:

thinking it could be the dual mass fly wheel?

I think it's considerably more likely it just needs a new set of spark plugs!

[stevieturbo]

Pumaracing said:

I think it's considerably more likely it just needs a new set of spark plugs!

These ones ?


http://kalecoauto.com/index.php?main_page=product_...

[Pumaracing]

stevieturbo said:

Pumaracing said:

I think it's considerably more likely it just needs a new set of spark plugs!

These ones ?


http://kalecoauto.com/index.php?main_page=product_...

I think they'd do just fine. At least it's a cheaper option than trying to replace the non-existent linkage the OP believes connects his throttle pedal to his flywheel.

[jacksonvr6]

Thanks for the help for a genuine problem maybe if I had asked what size wheels to put on you might have been more helpful obviously bit to technical for people with brains made of cardboard

[stevieturbo]

jacksonvr6 said:

Thanks for the help for a genuine problem maybe if I had asked what size wheels to put on you might have been more helpful obviously bit to technical for people with brains made of cardboard

Well surely whoever the garage was that plugged into their scanner had some sort of diagnosis ? Or was it just some dummy with a $2.99 code reader ?

People's descriptions of a problem are often far removed from what an experienced person might describe them as, which makes any internet diagnosis incredibly difficult.

Poor starting when could could be as simple as a glow plug problem, to as major as injector/pump issues, or anything mechanical in between, and with modern diesels a myriad of potential electrical issues whether there are any actual fault codes or not.

Ensure the glow plugs are working first of all, then ensure the diesel supply to the pump is 100% sound

[Pumaracing]

jacksonvr6 said:

Thanks for the help for a genuine problem maybe if I had asked what size wheels to put on you might have been more helpful obviously bit to technical for people with brains made of cardboard

Maybe if you could be bothered to use proper punctuation, full stops, capital letters etc you wouldn't give the impression that you can't really be arsed to spend much time on this in which case why should we?

However if your description of the problem is even vaguely correct in relation to what's actually happening then clearly the engine is actually starting each time. i.e. you turn the key, release the key and the engine is now running on its own.

It's just not responding to the throttle pedal properly which means either an intermittent fault in the fuel delivery system or the electronics associated with that or possibly that it's only starting on one or two cylinders. However it could no more be the flywheel preventing the engine responding to the throttle than it could be the paint colour or the tyre pressure. Only someone with, well for want of a better term, brains made of cardboard could even contemplate such a thing.

However, since you have no fault codes and the problem always goes away we couldn't possibly tell you which of the myriad things that might cause this it could actually be. Maybe just a dodgy connection somewhere in the wiring.

[jacksonvr6]

Pumaracing said:

Maybe if you could be bothered to use proper punctuation, full stops, capital letters etc you wouldn't give the impression that you can't really be arsed to spend much time on this in which case why should we?

However if your description of the problem is even vaguely correct in relation to what's actually happening then clearly the engine is actually starting each time. i.e. you turn the key, release the key and the engine is now running on its own.

It's just not responding to the throttle pedal properly which means either an intermittent fault in the fuel delivery system or the electronics associated with that or possibly that it's only starting on one or two cylinders. However it could no more be the flywheel preventing the engine responding to the throttle than it could be the paint colour or the tyre pressure. Only someone with, well for want of a better term, brains made of cardboard could even contemplate such a thing.

However, since you have no fault codes and the problem always goes away we couldn't possibly tell you which of the myriad things that might cause this it could actually be. Maybe just a dodgy connection somewhere in the wiring.

Ha ha just because I didn't write the post to your standards Im obviously not interested ha ha was just trying to see if anyone had heard/seen this kind of thing before that is what these forums are for isn't it? Not a spelling or punctuation test !
if you read the post properly the problem isn't actually the throttle not responding that is just one of the symptoms as I'm trying to best explain the problem
Do you know what a dual mass flywheel is or does? Probably not so don't bother commenting
Its booked in at local ford garage tomoro so we'll see what they find

[Pumaracing]

I see. So when you originally stated that the engine didn't respond to the throttle pedal properly that was meant to mean something completely different and just throw us off the track?

I should have known better. Note to self for the future. When they can't type, can't spell and can't punctuate properly they generally can't describe the problem properly either so save yourself the grief and don't get involved.

[jacksonvr6]

Pumaracing said:

I see. So when you originally stated that the engine didn't respond to the throttle pedal properly that was meant to mean something completely different and just throw us off the track?

I should have known better. Note to self for the future. When they can't type, can't spell and can't punctuate properly they generally can't describe the problem properly either so save yourself the grief and don't get involved.

Well done you've got it!!
This is a forum not a school exam!
Funny how I've explained this problem the same way to other people/forums and they dont get confused.
Also no response about the flywheel? Enough said really

[jacksonvr6]

Pumaracing said:

I see. So when you originally stated that the engine didn't respond to the throttle pedal properly that was meant to mean something completely different and just throw us off the track?

I should have known better. Note to self for the future. When they can't type, can't spell and can't punctuate properly they generally can't describe the problem properly either so save yourself the grief and don't get involved.

Well done you've got it!!
This is a forum not a school exam!
Funny how I've explained this problem the same way to other people/forums and they dont get confused.
Also no response about the flywheel? Enough said really

[Pumaracing]

jacksonvr6 said:

Also no response about the flywheel? Enough said really

Sorry for the omission. I'm afraid no I have no idea what a dual mass flywheel is. I actually know very little about engines but like to pretend I do on here.

Is it a flywheel that weighs more some days than others? Or maybe it's light when the engine is stationary but weighs more and more the faster the engine turns. That would make sense to me. That means the car would start easily when the flywheel was light but as it got heavier it would help you climb hills and go faster on motorways.

[Classic Grad 98]

Pumaracing said:

I actually know very little about engines but like to pretend I do on here.

[Pumaracing]

Classic Grad 98 said:

Pumaracing said:

I actually know very little about engines but like to pretend I do on here.

For some reason this thread is making me think about my beloved cats, sadly all long since departed. You know the way they catch a mouse, bring it home to show you how clever they are and then toy with it mercilessly before administering the coup-de-grace. However, I have no idea why it's making me think of this.

PS - I always used to rescue the mice if I could, restore them to health and let them go. One of the little bds escaped from the box he was recuperating in with about an inch of tail missing, took up residence in the cupboard under the stairs for several weeks and chewed holes in my favourite fishing net. I finally got him one day when he was inside one of my motorbike boots and didn't hear me coming in time. I folded the top of the boot down quickly to trap him and then let him go in the garden to take his chances again.

Then one of them brought back a frog and I thought life's too bloody short and let them get on with it. You can't save all of god's creatures.

[stevieturbo]

jacksonvr6 said:

Well done you've got it!!
This is a forum not a school exam!
Funny how I've explained this problem the same way to other people/forums and they dont get confused.
Also no response about the flywheel? Enough said really

That's because ( and dont take this the wrong way, just using it to describe ) when an idiot describes something to another idiot, well, you're both talking on the same level so it seems to make sense to both parties.

When an idiot describes something to someone far above their level on a particular subject, well...it comes across as them being clueless.

Obviously you dont know what DMF is otherwise you would realise there is no possible way it can have anything to do with what you have described as being the problem..


I think Puma's recent "puncture" thread highlights all of the above.

As before, check your glow plugs and ensure there is a good fuel supply to the pump.

[jacksonvr6]

I appreciate it's difficult to get a diagnosis online without hearing the problem, when I spoke to ford and played them the soundclip from my phone the 1st thing the 2 of them said was it sounded like the dmf hopefully I'll have some luck when it goes in
And yes I do actually know what a dmf is and it is quite possible that this is the problem
Don't think it can be the glow plugs and when it does start properly it runs fine

Edited by jacksonvr6 on Wednesday 1st February 20:28

[stevieturbo]

jacksonvr6 said:

Don't think it can be the glow plugs and when it does start properly it runs fine

And that would be because the glow plugs are only used for cold starts !! Now when it is running.

The flywheel on the other hand has pretty much sweet FA to do with how it starts. Unless of course it had fallen off in which case it would never start.

[Pumaracing]

jacksonvr6 said:

I appreciate it's difficult to get a diagnosis online without hearing the problem, when I spoke to ford and played them the soundclip from my phone the 1st thing the 2 of them said was it sounded like the dmf hopefully I'll have some luck when it goes in
And yes I do actually know what a dmf is and it is quite possible that this is the problem
Don't think it can be the glow plugs and when it does start properly it runs fine

Hearing the noise it makes is not the issue. The issue is your complete inability to actually say whether it starts but won't rev and makes a rattling noise or whether it doesn't even start at all. Seeing as those would generate two entirely different diagnoses this is a waste of time.

Anyway the Ford dealer will love it. If they can't reproduce the problem and there are no fault codes they'll replace everything they can think of at random at your expense including the DMF if you let them so I hope you've got a couple of grand burning a hole in your pocket because that's quite easily what it could cost you.

[Steve_D]

jacksonvr6 said:

…….And yes I do actually know what a dmf is and it is quite possible that this is the problem
Don't think it can be the glow plugs and when it does start properly it runs fine…..

If you insist on staying with this DMF theory you are going to get well ripped off.

Let me try and apply some logic for you.
A DMF is a flywheel with a vibration damper built into it. If it becomes faulty it will chatter and perhaps cause clutch judder etc.

How can that possibly cause a car to not start?

Glow plugs are used at startup to get the diesel burning until the engine is up to normal cylinder pressures and temperature. If one or more glow plugs are faulty or intermittent the engine will be reluctant to start and vibrate badly until up to cylinder temperatures.

Being as this mis firing and rough running fits your description rather well how can you possibly discount the glow plugs as being a cause?

As a side note, if your DMF is slightly worn and the engine (for some other reason) is running rough it will make the DMF issue more obvious but will not be a cause.

Steve