How do you value a kit car ?
Discussion
I'm building a Fisher Fury Menace with a couple of friends and we'd like to get an idea of its value once complete.
Normally you'd just check what similar cars are selling for - But i have only ever seen one for sale and that had a much higher spec engine.
Its basically a Fisher Fury but with a mid mounted CBR900 engine. Would it be about the same value as a normal front engined Fury ? Or would it be worth more as there were only about 5 Kits produced and is mid engined ? Or would the fact there are so few about go against it and make it worth less than a normal Fury ?
Any comments appreciated.
Normally you'd just check what similar cars are selling for - But i have only ever seen one for sale and that had a much higher spec engine.
Its basically a Fisher Fury but with a mid mounted CBR900 engine. Would it be about the same value as a normal front engined Fury ? Or would it be worth more as there were only about 5 Kits produced and is mid engined ? Or would the fact there are so few about go against it and make it worth less than a normal Fury ?
Any comments appreciated.
Difficult one this.
The Fury/Phoenix etc have a following for several reasons but 2 would be the success in racing, RGB etc and the talent of the original designer, known for good chassis design. They make great track cars as well as a bit of touring.
Prices vary wildly for them but a newish (2 yrs old) decent spec car could go for 9-10k I would have thought quite easily. Would something so rare go for more for it's rareity or less for the same reason? I would imagine you should get similar money but there would be a smaller market for it.
The Fury/Phoenix etc have a following for several reasons but 2 would be the success in racing, RGB etc and the talent of the original designer, known for good chassis design. They make great track cars as well as a bit of touring.
Prices vary wildly for them but a newish (2 yrs old) decent spec car could go for 9-10k I would have thought quite easily. Would something so rare go for more for it's rareity or less for the same reason? I would imagine you should get similar money but there would be a smaller market for it.
rdodger said:
Would something so rare go for more for it's rarity or less for the same reason? I would imagine you should get similar money but there would be a smaller market for it.
This is what I've always assumed... as a general rule you don't tend to get any premium for rarity with kit cars, because so many are are built in tiny numbers, and because as many people are put off by the potential lack of spares, support and knowledge as are turned on by the exclusivity.There are exceptions - cars that are unusually desirable but suffered a limited production run for other reasons - but the best you can usually do is base the price on cars of similar specification/build cost/reputation and accept that you will have a smaller market than the more common models and so may take longer to find the right buyer when you come to sell.
I value kit cars for insurance purposes for our local club, Essex Kitcar Club.
A massive amount depends not just on what the car is & what engine/equipment it has fitted, but the overall condition &, probably the most important point of all the build quality.
You can have a Lambo rep or a GT40, but if the build quality is poor, scruffy wiring, dirty corroded rusty engine/exhaust, interior poorly fitted, body panel gaps wide & variable etc etc etc. it's not worth much because it's an almost impossible job to put it right.
The other very important point is how quickly you need to sell, you can have a very desirable, unusual & beautifully finished car, but if you want cash this w/e you have a very limited marketplace & you will probably get something like half to 2/3 it's real value.
With something like the Menace, it looks main stream enough that its limited production is probably not significantly negative, I take it the moulds/jigs still exist? The fact that it's similar to the Fury, but a completely different car could certainly play in its favour in terms of novelty value, but it will definitely make it harder to sell if you were in a hurry. If you're looking at its real value in an unforced sale where you can wait for the right buyer to come along then I would say it's probably worth a little more than a Fury of similar spec, build quality & condition. If you need to sell quickly then it would be worth less than the similar Fury simply because you're playing to a smaller audience.
A massive amount depends not just on what the car is & what engine/equipment it has fitted, but the overall condition &, probably the most important point of all the build quality.
You can have a Lambo rep or a GT40, but if the build quality is poor, scruffy wiring, dirty corroded rusty engine/exhaust, interior poorly fitted, body panel gaps wide & variable etc etc etc. it's not worth much because it's an almost impossible job to put it right.
The other very important point is how quickly you need to sell, you can have a very desirable, unusual & beautifully finished car, but if you want cash this w/e you have a very limited marketplace & you will probably get something like half to 2/3 it's real value.
With something like the Menace, it looks main stream enough that its limited production is probably not significantly negative, I take it the moulds/jigs still exist? The fact that it's similar to the Fury, but a completely different car could certainly play in its favour in terms of novelty value, but it will definitely make it harder to sell if you were in a hurry. If you're looking at its real value in an unforced sale where you can wait for the right buyer to come along then I would say it's probably worth a little more than a Fury of similar spec, build quality & condition. If you need to sell quickly then it would be worth less than the similar Fury simply because you're playing to a smaller audience.
I agree, I think there was a reason the Menace did not sell and the Fury did. I was not deemed to be as good, for various reasons. I had a go in the original one Mark Fisher constructed in about 2004. Yours may be improved and a good one, but I think it would always be worth less than a Fury. Build it for yourself not to sell on, as at the moment even good Furys are not making any money.
Interesting reading.....
We actually bought the kit as just a fun project and at what we thought was a keen price. But the plan has always been to sell it once it’s complete and to replace it with another project.
There has been allot of re-engineering fabrication and adjustments made, and this is ongoing, so I hope it will end up being regarded as a good quality car once finished.
It cost the original purchaser somewhere north of 17K and we have spent hundreds of hours on it and are only just getting started. There are still a lot of hrs and money to be spent
Would anyone like to hazard a guess at a figure it would likely sell for ? Relatively quick sale as there would be no point it hanging around for months / years.
We are hoping in the region of 8K - 12K ?
This would be road registered on a new registration.
We actually bought the kit as just a fun project and at what we thought was a keen price. But the plan has always been to sell it once it’s complete and to replace it with another project.
There has been allot of re-engineering fabrication and adjustments made, and this is ongoing, so I hope it will end up being regarded as a good quality car once finished.
It cost the original purchaser somewhere north of 17K and we have spent hundreds of hours on it and are only just getting started. There are still a lot of hrs and money to be spent
Would anyone like to hazard a guess at a figure it would likely sell for ? Relatively quick sale as there would be no point it hanging around for months / years.
We are hoping in the region of 8K - 12K ?
This would be road registered on a new registration.
for me valuation is done by:
brand, spec, quality of built and age. (in this order)
the final value of a "freshly" assembled kit will definately not be the price of all parts, labour etc. calculated togehter. building a kitcar will never result in money macking...you will rather loose a certain percentage of the money invested.
also insurance value is totally different than the market value.
(e.g. insruance value 14k, typical market price 8k...very common within collector/historic cars)
also its hard to tell with kitcars...if a seller is offering an exotic type of kit with a rather "strange" than pleasing design, even when the car has a good spec and its well built it will sell mostly by the price.
favoured kits like caterham, sylva fisher or westfield will have a better price stability.
brand, spec, quality of built and age. (in this order)
the final value of a "freshly" assembled kit will definately not be the price of all parts, labour etc. calculated togehter. building a kitcar will never result in money macking...you will rather loose a certain percentage of the money invested.
also insurance value is totally different than the market value.
(e.g. insruance value 14k, typical market price 8k...very common within collector/historic cars)
also its hard to tell with kitcars...if a seller is offering an exotic type of kit with a rather "strange" than pleasing design, even when the car has a good spec and its well built it will sell mostly by the price.
favoured kits like caterham, sylva fisher or westfield will have a better price stability.
Edited by Comadis on Saturday 4th February 08:38
Kit Cars are a specialist market.
Prices in a specialist markets are very difficult to judge because the transaction levels are so low.
As others have said the condition and finish is paramount to valuation in newish kit cars. Really well finished cars will attract far more interest than rusty heaps.
Certain kit cars fetch high prices. A genuine Lotus Super Seven or Caterham will hold its value. Even rebuild projects from these brands fetch serious money.
Kit Cars with a genuine racing pedigree will always attract more interest.
IMO at the moment run of the mill kit cars are fetching poor money. Demand is low and Banhams and the like, Duttons and Robin Hoods are struggling to go for a few thousand pounds. Indeed I have seen good examples of these unsold at £1500. And less. In consequence many cars are advertised and unsold every week.
You could not build a car for that figure if you wanted to and could get the kit. It cannot be done.
IMO the kit car market is changing. IVA and the creeping bureaucracy of the DVLA/VOSA requirements are the main cause. A general lack of spare cash in the UK economy and sensible choices by individuals aware that times are getting harder are two others.
The experts on your particular car make and type can probably give you the best appraisal. Other club members with experience of that particular make will have an idea.
Good luck with the build. Driving a car you have built is a wonderful experience and well worth the effort.
Pricing a car today requires the wisdom of Soloman.
Prices in a specialist markets are very difficult to judge because the transaction levels are so low.
As others have said the condition and finish is paramount to valuation in newish kit cars. Really well finished cars will attract far more interest than rusty heaps.
Certain kit cars fetch high prices. A genuine Lotus Super Seven or Caterham will hold its value. Even rebuild projects from these brands fetch serious money.
Kit Cars with a genuine racing pedigree will always attract more interest.
IMO at the moment run of the mill kit cars are fetching poor money. Demand is low and Banhams and the like, Duttons and Robin Hoods are struggling to go for a few thousand pounds. Indeed I have seen good examples of these unsold at £1500. And less. In consequence many cars are advertised and unsold every week.
You could not build a car for that figure if you wanted to and could get the kit. It cannot be done.
IMO the kit car market is changing. IVA and the creeping bureaucracy of the DVLA/VOSA requirements are the main cause. A general lack of spare cash in the UK economy and sensible choices by individuals aware that times are getting harder are two others.
The experts on your particular car make and type can probably give you the best appraisal. Other club members with experience of that particular make will have an idea.
Good luck with the build. Driving a car you have built is a wonderful experience and well worth the effort.
Pricing a car today requires the wisdom of Soloman.
Minor apologies for bumping this topic but I would like an opinion or assistance or who to approach as to how best to value my 6-year old Pilgrim 3000 for insurance purposes. Previously I’ve used the build cost and insurance companies have been happy with the figure I’ve quoted (£13k).
I’ve now been asked for a valuation so I’m now wondering whether there is now (since the original posting) a better market and the insured value ought to be increased / re-assessed. For instance I’ve seen a similar model advertised for sale at £25 [http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C610021 ]. Mine may require a little bit of time and effort to get it to that apparent standard but, who knows?
I’ve now been asked for a valuation so I’m now wondering whether there is now (since the original posting) a better market and the insured value ought to be increased / re-assessed. For instance I’ve seen a similar model advertised for sale at £25 [http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C610021 ]. Mine may require a little bit of time and effort to get it to that apparent standard but, who knows?
rog3k said:
Minor apologies for bumping this topic but I would like an opinion or assistance or who to approach as to how best to value my 6-year old Pilgrim 3000 for insurance purposes. Previously I’ve used the build cost and insurance companies have been happy with the figure I’ve quoted (£13k).
I’ve now been asked for a valuation so I’m now wondering whether there is now (since the original posting) a better market and the insured value ought to be increased / re-assessed. For instance I’ve seen a similar model advertised for sale at £25 [http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C610021 ]. Mine may require a little bit of time and effort to get it to that apparent standard but, who knows?
Interesting question!I’ve now been asked for a valuation so I’m now wondering whether there is now (since the original posting) a better market and the insured value ought to be increased / re-assessed. For instance I’ve seen a similar model advertised for sale at £25 [http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C610021 ]. Mine may require a little bit of time and effort to get it to that apparent standard but, who knows?
IVA has undoubtedly improved the general standards of finishing of kit cars. And in conseqence the values or rather the lack of value in unfinished kit cars on the market, has caused such projects to have very little real values currenty. Completing an unregistered kit car is now a singuarly uneconomic and expensive job. A thankless task.
Completed kit cars with genuine provenance and history are rising steadily in value, i think. Primarily because it is now widely appreciated that unfinished kit cars are really no longer viable projects. In reality that route is long gone.
There is also some anticipation in the market which the traders are hoping will bring windfall rises. Which does give rise to some excessive prices, I fear. You car may well be worth the figures you are suggesting. However that can only be established finally if you were to be successful in selling your car at the antciated price. I do think that decent well built correctly registered kit cars are generally increasing in value and I think your anticipated values may well be reasonable in consequence. Time will tell.
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